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Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

nytimes.com

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Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#21

Post by punkghetto »

plg wrote: post #13

It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive. Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another positio…

despite the ranting I agree with you. I had my first kid while at university and immediately switched to a program where I could have a job and career, and graduate quickly. It wasn't my passion, but it provides for my family, and I don't winge about it to anyone else. I pursue my interests on the side as a hobby - which I hope to turn into a business or career if/when possible. It can be very hard to find the time for hobbies when you have a young family and a marriage to maintain. It's not about elites vs. non-elites though. Its about the fact that no-one has a right to be entitled to anything. You have to face the realities of life make sacrifices and be accountable for where you have ended up.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#22

Post by eigenvector »

javert wrote: post #18
eigenvector wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of high-paying jobs for qualified engineers and tradesmen with relevant experience. Let's not pretend a guy with an English PhD can get a well-paying job in Fort McMurray without years of costly retraining. Even engineers without relevant experience (SAGD or at least site exp) will have a tough time getting O&G industry jobs. When the industry says "skill shortage" it means that engineers are starting…

Are you saying there are not plenty of jobs in the oil fields for people without highly specialized training? That was not my understanding but what I heard was just secondhand. Anyway, it's just an example---there are still plenty of jobs out there for people who are willing to work hard, especially intelligent people, even if they don't have specialized training.

There are unskilled jobs - night watchman, etc. But they don't pay any better than working retail in an oil town (working at Tim Horton's in Fort Mac pays $18/hr). Cost of living is high in these places (because there is such demand for labour and property). A person working unskilled labour in an oil town isn't living any better than someone doing the same in NYC or SF.

The jobs that do pay much better in the O&G industry than elsewhere are skilled jobs - heavy equipment operator, millwright, pipefitter, etc. You'll generally need a Red Seal or equivalent certification for these.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#23

Post by stefan_kendall »

justin66 wrote: post #20

There's an interesting discontinuity here: - he's got a full workload (not a universal amongst adjuncts) and so the guy's skills are clearly in demand - he's taking home peanuts - students are paying a lot more in tuition than they ever did In this, as in so many areas of business, the consumer (the student in this case) might wonder where all the money is going.

Different markets.

Demand for the jobs is high, and supply is low. This keeps pay low.

Compare to tuition. Demand has been increasing over the last decade, and supply has remained relatively fixed or grown slowly. As more students seek to acquire trash art history degrees, price has risen to match the demand.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#24

Post by stefan_kendall »

venus wrote: post #11
javert wrote: post #3

What do you call a 42 year old, with a wife, a toddler and mounting credit card debt who got an English PhD 18 months ago? Either someone who completely failed to plan ahead, or someone who wanted to knowingly gamble everything to "follow his dream." Either is fine---just don't ask society to bail you out. A growing gap between 0 and the top is not inherently a problem---in fact it is necessary in a free market that…

Your username matches your comment - harsh, unempathetic, and blind to a larger, kinder view of society as you pursue a simplistic, black and white ethical code. Your willingness to throw people to the wolves because they've pursued their dreams without strict pragmatism about their career prospects is disturbing, to say the least. Do you really think society will be better off without any English professors? Artists…

Yes, I do not wish to finance someone else's dream. I could have told this guy 20 years ago that his life plan was awful and going to lead to financial hardship.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#25

Post by sopooneo »

fecklessyouth wrote: post #16

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze. More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instr…

I hear you, and I think you make a very good point. But from my own experience failing to do so, I can say that teaching high school well is spectacularly difficult. And if you are not good at the underlying classroom management and people skills, your subject-matter expertise will go largely wasted.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#26

Post by AnimalMuppet »

venus wrote: post #11
javert wrote: post #3

What do you call a 42 year old, with a wife, a toddler and mounting credit card debt who got an English PhD 18 months ago? Either someone who completely failed to plan ahead, or someone who wanted to knowingly gamble everything to "follow his dream." Either is fine---just don't ask society to bail you out. A growing gap between 0 and the top is not inherently a problem---in fact it is necessary in a free market that…

Your username matches your comment - harsh, unempathetic, and blind to a larger, kinder view of society as you pursue a simplistic, black and white ethical code. Your willingness to throw people to the wolves because they've pursued their dreams without strict pragmatism about their career prospects is disturbing, to say the least. Do you really think society will be better off without any English professors? Artists…

Not quite.

Imagine that I found a startup. But I'm 42, with a wife and a kid. I'm running into debt because my startup isn't taking off.

Would you say something similar to me? Would you tell me that society would be better off with more startups? (A true statement, BTW.) Would you say that I should pursue my dreams without strict pragmatism about my career path? (Another true statement.)

Or would you say that, having taken the responsibility of getting married and having a child, I should think at least somewhat pragmatically about the odds of a payoff before I condemn them to a life of debt so that I can chase my improbable dream? Startups working are a 10-to-1 longshot, you know. That gives me a 9-out-of-10 chance of it not paying off, leaving my family in a large financial hole.

Your response is as black-and-white as the one you are responding to. The odds are against an English PhD getting tenure. (I don't know that they're 10-to-1 against - anyone got real numbers?) Chasing your dream is fine, doing what you love is fine, but leaving your family in financial danger while you go against the odds is a bit less benign than you paint it.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#27

Post by oulipian »

fecklessyouth wrote: post #16

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze. More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instr…

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these underemployed programmers to careers as cashiers. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an underemployed programmer. They won't necessarily get much time to "solve problems," but with their typing and math skills, cashiering should be a breeze!

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#28

Post by dredmorbius »

plg wrote: post #13

It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive. Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another positio…

Jane Jacobs, more noted as an urban planning visionary, started taking a hard look at institutions, including education and the role of credentialing. Her book The Dark Age Ahead is (as you might suspect) a dark vision of the future:

http://www.powells.com/biblio/2-9781400062324-3

She addressed the topic in an essay, "Credentialing vs. Education": http://www.vqronline.org/articles/2004/spring/jacobs-credent...

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#29

Post by HarryHirsch »

javert wrote: post #18
eigenvector wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of high-paying jobs for qualified engineers and tradesmen with relevant experience. Let's not pretend a guy with an English PhD can get a well-paying job in Fort McMurray without years of costly retraining. Even engineers without relevant experience (SAGD or at least site exp) will have a tough time getting O&G industry jobs. When the industry says "skill shortage" it means that engineers are starting…

Are you saying there are not plenty of jobs in the oil fields for people without highly specialized training? That was not my understanding but what I heard was just secondhand. Anyway, it's just an example---there are still plenty of jobs out there for people who are willing to work hard, especially intelligent people, even if they don't have specialized training.

The population of the Dakotas is 1.5 millions. The number of unemployed people in the US stands at 12 millions. The Bakken oil patch couldn't make a dent in the national unemployment rate, even if it wanted to. I have no clue where this pernicious "there's jobs in the Dakotas" meme comes from, but it needs to die right quick.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#30

Post by iak8god »

freyrs3 wrote: post #15

I'm genuinely curious how universities are allocating their money such that these adjunct professors who are teaching more classes with more students, who are paying ever growing tuition themselves, are still living below the poverty line. Is there just enormous waste in the system or is there some complication between the supply and demand of people and PhD-level academic positions?

> Is there just enormous waste in the system

That depends on your point of view. If you are a part of the metastisizing university bureaucracy, then you might think replacing full-time faculty with more administrators and staff is a great use of resources.

"In the two decades from 1985 to 2005, student enrolment in the US rose by 56 per cent, faculty numbers increased by 50 per cent, degree-granting institutions expanded by 50 per cent, degrees granted grew by 47 per cent, administrators rocketed by 85 per cent and their attendant staff by a whopping 240 per cent." - http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/books/the-fall-of-the-...

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