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Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#21

Post by teraflop »

Jun8 wrote: post #17
teraflop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited. The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishin…

My point was that there should be no bar to clear when making a movie (or writing a novel, story, etc.). Placing artificial limits like that is exactly the type of bias you're talking about, but swinging to the other direction.

Please tell me where in my comment I suggested that any artificial limits should be placed anywhere, because I assure you it was completely unintentional.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#22

Post by Buzzzz »

biff wrote: post #12

This is a strange blind spot for film to have, especially with regard to genres like science fiction or fantasy where the art is limited only by the creator's imagination and conventional boundaries are expected to be tested. Maybe Hollywood's worried that target audiences won't identify with a female lead, maybe the formula's considered too risky for a blockbuster. But surely there's an alternate universe somewhere…

Maybe they should try to make movies out of Katherine kerrs books they are both good reads and has varied genders (if I remember correctly). Buzzz

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#23

Post by sixothree »

gph wrote: post #10
fryguy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a recent movie that's similar is Gravity . It doesn't even pass the reverse test since there are so few characters.

Haven't seen that one, but the first thing that popped into my head was "What about a movie like Moon?" I mean there was really just the one main character, and I suppose he talked to his wife and daughter who were both named so it gets an A grade. But they were the only two female characters that I remember and I don't think they really added a lot to the gender equality context seeing as they were the stay-at-home…

In my opinion they do not even populate the denominator, much less the numerator; but according to this test it gets a 0/1.

But then again, Moon does have two female characters so maybe it deserves a 1/3.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#24

Post by stolio »

mchaver wrote: post #13
stolio wrote: post #9

Having seen both the Swedish and American versions of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo I have to say Sweden is a bit ahead when it comes to gender representation, so they're doing something right somewhere. On the other hand, Harry Potter was written by a self-proclaimed feminist and has a very empowering female in Hermione Granger, if that series fails the Bechdel Test then I'm left wondering how many other false-pos…

It's definitely a flawed metric, but I doubt most metrics start out perfectly and there is nothing wrong with that. It's value is in starting a dialogue and I am sure it can be improved with iteration. Some minor issues fact-based movies, documentaries: biographical movies (if it is the story of a man and there are no women in his life that doesn't necessarily make it chauvinistic), historical movies (if it is a movi…

The test has had almost 30 years to develop

The general problem that I see in both the test and the problem it's designed to solve is this mental shortcut of an either/or grouping. Male/female, pass/fail.

But if it helps some people start dialogue then that's wonderful, at the same time I think the intersectionalist feminists deserve some positive attention for searching out new ways to get the conversations going.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#26

Post by vectorjohn »

roarroar wrote: post #20

Maybe if feminists (part of the parasitic political class) spent less time being resentful of what others have built and built something themselves they'd have less reason to be resentful in the first place. Now we're living not just with the reactive feminist losers, but the reactive-reactive super-loser MRA types.

Wow, worst of HN award? This is up there with the worst garbage I've read on here. Broad generalizations and extreme sexism.

You might as well have said civil rights leaders should have sucked it up and built something themselves. As if that's not what they were doing.

Or excellent troll. But out of place - this is for serious discussion.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#27

Post by roarroar »

mchaver wrote: post #16
Jun8 wrote: post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

I think the Bechdel test can be viewed as a first iteration or a MVP. It builds interest and gets people talking and thinking about the test and the issue. Then it can be iterated and improved upon.

The first iteration of what? Total degeneration? How can you "improve" a test designed to enforce slave morality on creative people?

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#28

Post by roarroar »

vectorjohn wrote: post #26
roarroar wrote: post #20

Maybe if feminists (part of the parasitic political class) spent less time being resentful of what others have built and built something themselves they'd have less reason to be resentful in the first place. Now we're living not just with the reactive feminist losers, but the reactive-reactive super-loser MRA types.

Wow, worst of HN award? This is up there with the worst garbage I've read on here. Broad generalizations and extreme sexism. You might as well have said civil rights leaders should have sucked it up and built something themselves. As if that's not what they were doing. Or excellent troll. But out of place - this is for serious discussion.

>Broad generalizations and extreme sexism.

Your comment is up there with the "worst garbage" on HN. An inconvenient opinion that you have no answer to (see next paragraph), answered with a laughable accusation of "extreme sexism". Get a life, loser.

>You might as well have said civil rights leaders should have sucked it up and built something themselves.

You might as well have brought the slaves of Sparta into the discussion. The conditions of women trying to produce their own films aren't even in the same _sport_ as the broad issues facing blacks during the civil rights movement. This is one mark of the egalitarian: to covertly exploit those weaker than him in order to press forward his own interests.

>But out of place - this is for serious discussion.

Yes, like your moronic attack on me. Grow a brain.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#29

Post by roarroar »

roarroar wrote: post #27
mchaver wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Bechdel test can be viewed as a first iteration or a MVP. It builds interest and gets people talking and thinking about the test and the issue. Then it can be iterated and improved upon.

The first iteration of what? Total degeneration? How can you "improve" a test designed to enforce slave morality on creative people?

Maybe the downvoters can make an argument. I doubt it, since that is the reason people abuse the downvote button - to shut off an argument they are incapable of understanding.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#30

Post by saraid216 »

Jun8 wrote: post #17
teraflop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited. The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishin…

My point was that there should be no bar to clear when making a movie (or writing a novel, story, etc.). Placing artificial limits like that is exactly the type of bias you're talking about, but swinging to the other direction.

It's not about when making a movie.

It's fine, for instance, if someone feels a really strong need to inform you that they have a pistol in their pocket. But if everyone, or even most people, are going around telling people that they have a pistol in their pocket... there isn't actually a scenario in which this says, "Things are still okay."

It's about what everyone is doing as a whole.

If a white guy kicks a black guy in the street, then hey, maybe one or both of those guys are jerks. If thousands of white guys are kicking thousands of black guys in the street, then maybe there's an issue here.

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