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Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#11

Post by teraflop »

Jun8 wrote: post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited.

The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishingly low bar, the fact that a large fraction of movies still can't clear it is a symptom of systematic biases within the industry.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#12

Post by biff »

This is a strange blind spot for film to have, especially with regard to genres like science fiction or fantasy where the art is limited only by the creator's imagination and conventional boundaries are expected to be tested.

Maybe Hollywood's worried that target audiences won't identify with a female lead, maybe the formula's considered too risky for a blockbuster. But surely there's an alternate universe somewhere with aliens or magic where (hold on to your hats) a matriarchal society somehow evolved and manages to be part of the fabric of the story without characters constantly drawing attention to it, comparing it to Earth, having it set up a battle of the sexes, etc.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#13

Post by mchaver »

stolio wrote: post #9

Having seen both the Swedish and American versions of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo I have to say Sweden is a bit ahead when it comes to gender representation, so they're doing something right somewhere. On the other hand, Harry Potter was written by a self-proclaimed feminist and has a very empowering female in Hermione Granger, if that series fails the Bechdel Test then I'm left wondering how many other false-pos…

It's definitely a flawed metric, but I doubt most metrics start out perfectly and there is nothing wrong with that. It's value is in starting a dialogue and I am sure it can be improved with iteration.

Some minor issues fact-based movies, documentaries: biographical movies (if it is the story of a man and there are no women in his life that doesn't necessarily make it chauvinistic), historical movies (if it is a movie about anti-feminist or chauvinistic events, does that necessarily make it anti-feminist even if the goal is to educate?)

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#14

Post by anthonyb »

teraflop wrote: post #11
Jun8 wrote: post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited. The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishin…

"Fizzbuzz for movies"

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#15

Post by Jun8 »

biff wrote: post #12

This is a strange blind spot for film to have, especially with regard to genres like science fiction or fantasy where the art is limited only by the creator's imagination and conventional boundaries are expected to be tested. Maybe Hollywood's worried that target audiences won't identify with a female lead, maybe the formula's considered too risky for a blockbuster. But surely there's an alternate universe somewhere…

A movie from Tiptree's story Houston, Houston, Do You Read would be exactly what you mention.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#16

Post by mchaver »

Jun8 wrote: post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

I think the Bechdel test can be viewed as a first iteration or a MVP. It builds interest and gets people talking and thinking about the test and the issue. Then it can be iterated and improved upon.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#17

Post by Jun8 »

teraflop wrote: post #11
Jun8 wrote: post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited. The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishin…

My point was that there should be no bar to clear when making a movie (or writing a novel, story, etc.). Placing artificial limits like that is exactly the type of bias you're talking about, but swinging to the other direction.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#19

Post by anthonyb »

Jun8 wrote: post #17
teraflop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting a purpose onto the Bechdel test that it doesn't inherently possess. It doesn't tell you that any particular movie is bad for not passing it; obviously, a film can fail the test and still be a great work of art. And nobody is saying that movies that fail should be censored or limited. The point of the test is to illustrate that, given that having a conversation between two women is such an astonishin…

My point was that there should be no bar to clear when making a movie (or writing a novel, story, etc.). Placing artificial limits like that is exactly the type of bias you're talking about, but swinging to the other direction.

It's a rating system. Next you'll be accusing Roger Ebert of censorship.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#20

Post by roarroar »

Maybe if feminists (part of the parasitic political class) spent less time being resentful of what others have built and built something themselves they'd have less reason to be resentful in the first place. Now we're living not just with the reactive feminist losers, but the reactive-reactive super-loser MRA types.
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