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Show success before asking for help

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Re: Show success before asking for help

#21

Post by infinibuy »

I can't believe so many people are missing the moral of the story and focusing on the ethics part of it. Its not like he was harming anyone by making the copy and I'll bet he thought ethics was the last thing people on the blog would be talking about.

Now for the meat and potatos of the story: I think that you can apply this lesson (making it on your own before you ask for help) to many other areas other than the music business. Lets say you were looking for VC funding, don't you think the people funding it would be more impressed if you got your idea up and running without any help? When you do things with little or no help it shows determination and a will to succeed no matter what the odds are.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#22

Post by Lagged2Death »

infinibuy wrote: post #21

I can't believe so many people are missing the moral of the story and focusing on the ethics part of it. Its not like he was harming anyone by making the copy and I'll bet he thought ethics was the last thing people on the blog would be talking about. Now for the meat and potatos of the story: I think that you can apply this lesson (making it on your own before you ask for help) to many other areas other than the mus…

It could be that people are focusing on the ethics because the "meat and potatoes" of the story are stupid.

The author's main point is: if you're rich and famous, people are more likely to treat you as if you're rich and famous.

The author says you have to "make your own success," and as an example, he points to a "really bad metal" songwriter who was "in a band with a major rock star" and who helped to sell 20M records.

But surely not even the author believes for a second that this songwriter managed to sell 20M records "on his own." Surely there were publishers, promoters, record companies etc. involved, yes? If the songwriter in question was a surprise indie hit, surely the author would have said so?

I think the very idea that a business deal involving an advance payment is somehow a charitable cause ("asking for help") dramatically illustrates the the arrogance, the star-struck cult of fame and money that's brought the music business so low.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#23

Post by menloparkbum »

Lagged2Death wrote: post #22
infinibuy wrote: post #21

I can't believe so many people are missing the moral of the story and focusing on the ethics part of it. Its not like he was harming anyone by making the copy and I'll bet he thought ethics was the last thing people on the blog would be talking about. Now for the meat and potatos of the story: I think that you can apply this lesson (making it on your own before you ask for help) to many other areas other than the mus…

It could be that people are focusing on the ethics because the "meat and potatoes" of the story are stupid. The author's main point is: if you're rich and famous, people are more likely to treat you as if you're rich and famous. The author says you have to "make your own success," and as an example, he points to a "really bad metal" songwriter who was "in a band with a major rock star" and who helped to sell 20M reco…

In the music industry, don't you have to pay an advance back?

Wouldn't that mean an already rich songwriter can pay it back, even if he bombs?

Re: Show success before asking for help

#24

Post by Confusion »

_pius wrote: post #19
_pius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the ethical merit of what he did is germane to the message of the article. Either way, a down vote should be accompanied by a comment. I said this once and PG smacked me down. I think he's wrong. Unless you made an incredibly vapid comment with no substance whatsoever, you don't deserve to be downvoted unless there's at least one comment beneath your post. (Not to say I follow this rule all the time.)

Ooh, now that's ironic. Someone just did a drive-by downmod of all my posts! edit: and again. I see the Reddit and Digg refugees are out in full force!

Upvoted grandparent, downvoted parent. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#25

Post by _pius »

Confusion wrote: post #24
_pius wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooh, now that's ironic. Someone just did a drive-by downmod of all my posts! edit: and again. I see the Reddit and Digg refugees are out in full force!

Upvoted grandparent, downvoted parent. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

Oh, the reason's fairly obvious; upmodded for leaving a comment. :)

Re: Show success before asking for help

#26

Post by axod »

edw519 wrote: post #12
axod wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps data is only correct if it was acquired ethically? :/ Maybe the unethical collection of data introduces large margins of error from the ethic-goblins.

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with the correctness of the data, and everything to do with the means used to collect it. See also: torture & search warrants.

Torture introduces possible error into data. So it's an extremely bad analogy.

Picking up a sheet of paper doesn't call the validity of the data into question. It's still the same data.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#27

Post by Goladus »

edw519 wrote: post #3

"I quickly took it to the Xerox machine, made a copy, and put it back." 1. Don't leave anything confidential out on your desk. 2. Don't let this guy loose in your office. 3. Ethical behavior should be a prerequisite to blogging :) [EDIT: This was downvoted within 2 minutes of posting, exactly what I expected. It happens every time. Why do people here have such a problem when someone mentions ethical behavior? Is is b…

Respecting confidentiality is not exactly high on my list of ethical priorities. If the information is not dangerous or likely to be misconstrued, and the other party has not earned the respect, I don't think it's morally wrong.

(did not vote on post)

Re: Show success before asking for help

#28

Post by axod »

edw519 wrote: post #10
axod wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down-voted because it's irrelevant to the point he's trying to make. Arguing ethics isn't really that interesting. Discussing success, cash advances, etc etc is far more interesting.

Success = (Factor1 + Factor2 + Factor3 + ...) * Ethics Ethics is a binary 1 or 0. Maybe not that interesting, but hardly irrelevant. (Don't believe me? Let your customers find out about you lieing, cheating, or stealing. Then see what happens to your revenue stream.)

>> Let your customers find out about you lieing, cheating, or stealing. Then see what happens to your revenue stream.

Your formula for success isn't true in the least. Whole companies have been built on lies and cheating since the world began.

Bell for example, built a whole company after stealing someone elses patent to the telephone.

I'm afraid most customers don't particularly care that much about ethics. At least not to the point that you seem to.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#29

Post by Alex3917 »

mdasen wrote: post #4

Most definitely. But it isn't like people are out to get you. Once you've shown success, people think (rightly or not) that you can duplicate it again. And they want in on that. They want to invest their money there because it seems more assured. If you haven't shown any past success, then you're a risk. What makes you more likely to succeed than any random person? This is why I like to have a few nice, running web a…

It's generally less that people think that you'll be able to do what you did last time again, and more that people believe that you're the kind of person who delivers on their promises. If you want to get a promotion at work to best place to start might be doing something as simple as taking everyone's lunch orders and getting them right. The point isn't to show that you're really talented in one specific area, but rather to create an asset, that asset being a group of people who trust you'll deliver on your promises.

Re: Show success before asking for help

#30

Post by jmtulloss »

edw519 wrote: post #10
axod wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down-voted because it's irrelevant to the point he's trying to make. Arguing ethics isn't really that interesting. Discussing success, cash advances, etc etc is far more interesting.

Success = (Factor1 + Factor2 + Factor3 + ...) * Ethics Ethics is a binary 1 or 0. Maybe not that interesting, but hardly irrelevant. (Don't believe me? Let your customers find out about you lieing, cheating, or stealing. Then see what happens to your revenue stream.)

Ethics is certainly not a 1 or 0, otherwise humanity wouldn't struggle with the subject so often. Suggesting that they are a 1 or a 0 indicates to me that you are in no way qualified to judge ethical behavior.
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