Live data from Hacker News

Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

newscientist.com

21–30 of 32 posts

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#21

Remember when WiMax was being discussed? How come it still isn't being sold yet? Could it be that it's because providers felt threatened? I suppose it would take meshnets to a whole new level.

Because the hardware and software was expensive and 3GPP ended up putting out a spec (LTE) that understood the way to move forward was to work with existing infrastructure and expand from there.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see that problem solved or attenuated if those meshes turn into some kind of distributed networks like bitmessage or bittorrent where everyone has duplicate pieces of a larger "file" thus ensuring almost 99% availability. Data put in the network would be everywhere and maybe a distribution algorithm could ensure that there's always a complete source on one node so the swarm could be rebuilt if one node goes dow…

> What concerns me is how highly vulnerable to RF disruption some of those projects relying on WiFi are. This is a serious problem if you are trying to communicate vital information in a country where the government is hell-bent on not letting citizens set up counter-revolt or grass-root movements because it'll actually be very cheap to disturb those signals (I may be wrong but from what I understand of WiFi freq. ra…

It's pretty easy to pick up a 2.4GHz jammer on ebay or various other sites.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#23

Remember when WiMax was being discussed? How come it still isn't being sold yet? Could it be that it's because providers felt threatened? I suppose it would take meshnets to a whole new level.

At least in EU, WiMax failed because the states decided to licence the spectrum to the usual telcos that had no interest in deploying the technology fearing a possible cannibalization of their own businesses.

However, WiMax is not a mesh network, although you can obviously use WiMax as a physical link on top of which a mesh protocol can work.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#24
post #17
post #14

Could someone clarify what the purpose of a meshnet is? Only encryption of all the contents? Or also hiding who talks to who? That last one seems quite difficult to achieve to me, in the presence of an attacker that permeates the network (the internet).

No central control. Point to point. It's like amateur radio communication where two people can talk directly with each other radio to radio.

Isn't this the whole point behind Internet and IP?

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#25

Mesh would be much more stable and efficient when it's based not on voluntary free-of-charge participation (like bittorrent, which does not work well for not-very-popular items), but on economics. If everyone pays everyone in Bitcoin for bandwidth and storage, the competition among computer enthusiasts would create a robust working network with lowest prices possible without any fancy algorithms to detect "leechers"…

I agree, an economic incentive would certainly add value to the ecosystem and allow it to grow faster.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#26
post #23

Remember when WiMax was being discussed? How come it still isn't being sold yet? Could it be that it's because providers felt threatened? I suppose it would take meshnets to a whole new level.

At least in EU, WiMax failed because the states decided to licence the spectrum to the usual telcos that had no interest in deploying the technology fearing a possible cannibalization of their own businesses. However, WiMax is not a mesh network, although you can obviously use WiMax as a physical link on top of which a mesh protocol can work.

I suppose it's time we have a public open hardware effort in order to break the telcos' unhealthy monopoly.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#27
post #14

Could someone clarify what the purpose of a meshnet is? Only encryption of all the contents? Or also hiding who talks to who? That last one seems quite difficult to achieve to me, in the presence of an attacker that permeates the network (the internet).

The main purpose is to have a network without depending on a central ISP. A good example of a sizable meshnet is the Athens Wireless Metropolitan[1] network which has more than a thousand backbone nodes. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens_Wireless_Metropolitan_Ne...

Ah, I missed the point that this network would eschew the internet totally. I now realize that the top comment and even the excerpt say exactly that.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#28

Question: Could it be interesting to have the main project leaders set up a website allowing everybody to pay hackers to come to your home and set up the required equipment ready-to-use?

Yes, this possibility has been discussed. At this point we've got these meshbox things which are basically plug-and-play meshnet nodes, but they dont extend very far. For the sort of thing you're talking about it'll require local involvement, but it's definitely something that's been discussed at my local meshnet

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#29

Remember when WiMax was being discussed? How come it still isn't being sold yet? Could it be that it's because providers felt threatened? I suppose it would take meshnets to a whole new level.

Sprint/Clearwire have deployed WiMax to >70 U.S. markets covering over 100m residents. If you live in e.g. Atlanta, you can buy a WiMax connection today. See clear.com.

Re: Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

#30
I've met a bunch of the people involved in the Seattle Meshnet project, since they have held meetings and set up a repeater station at ALTSpace, a makerspace I'm involved with. They're an enthusiastic bunch; the project hasn't hit critical mass yet but they are slogging away diligently.

I don't really understand what CJDNS does, and for the short term you can't really participate in the meshnet without a pretty solid understanding of the technologies involved, but I personally know quite a few people in central Seattle who would be happy to host repeaters if the meshnet people can get a turn-key installation package set up. I hope they'll reach that point soon.

Post reply on HN