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Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#21

Post by tristanj »

ranguna wrote: post #13
tristanj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* * *

Sources other than project flower?

When I first learned that Iran-Israel used to have friendly relations for decades, I was shocked. Genuinely surprised. Here's the relevant part of the wiki [0]:

After the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, Israel and Iran maintained close ties. Iran was the second Muslim-majority country to recognize Israel as a sovereign state after Turkey. Israel viewed Iran as a natural ally as a non-Arab power on the edge of the Arab world, in accordance with David Ben Gurion's concept of an alliance of the periphery. Israel had a permanent delegation in Tehran which served as a de facto embassy, before Ambassadors were exchanged in the late 1970s.

After the Six-Day War, Iran supplied Israel with a significant portion of its oil needs and Iranian oil was shipped to European markets via the joint Israeli-Iranian Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline. Trade between the countries was brisk, with Israeli construction firms and engineers active in Iran. El Al, the Israeli national airline, operated direct flights between Tel Aviv and Tehran. Iranian-Israeli military links and projects were kept secret, but they are believed to have been wide-ranging, for example the joint military project Project Flower (1977–79), an Iranian-Israeli attempt to develop a new missile.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#22

Post by ElProlactin »

tristanj wrote: post #11
constantius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> international waters It's not international waters. > if Iran is allowed to do this They have sovereignty and they only ever mentioned doing this to pay for reparations after being attacked by two countries that have been allowed to routinely attack/exploit the Middle East and, in the case of one, carry out genocide. As an aside, the war is largely seen as being waged for the sake of Israel, against US/world intere…

Iran does not have full sovereignty over the strait of Hormuz. Ownership of the the strait is split between Iranian and Omani territorial waters. Iran has sovereignty over the waters on its side, but Iran does not have sovereignty over the Omani side. Iran maintains a blockade on the strait by placing mines in Omani waters, and firing missiles at civilian ships that attempt to pass in Omani waters. It has no legal ba…

> It has no legal basis to do either of those.

The US and Israel had no legal basis to launch an attack on Iran.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You can't be for the rule of law only when it's convenient for you and expect the rest of the world to be for the rule of law when it's not convenient for them.

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#23

Post by constantius »

tristanj wrote: post #20
peter-m80 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hezbollah is the consequence of Israel Invading Lebannon.

Sure, but Lebanon attacked Israel first (in 1948). Lebanon was the aggressor. Assigning blame to only one side is meaningless when both sides go tit-for-tat for decades. Both Israel and Lebanon are complicit in this mess.

Same way as the UK attacked Germany first during WWII, no?

There were many reasons for the Arab League, which Lebanon was part of, to attack a country taking over Palestine.

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#25

Post by slaw »

spwa4 wrote: post #3

Yes what they want to do is to tax other countries for using what is currently international waters and tax free, because they are militarily able to do so. That creates the problem that if Iran is allowed to do this, other countries will do this too (Indonesia will tax the Malacca strait). If that happens, a lot of countries will give very serious thought to attacking each other, not just in the middle east, and may…

Shipping lane is on Oman side of Strait of Hormuz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz#/media/File:S...

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#26

Post by tristanj »

ElProlactin wrote: post #19
tristanj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* * *

> Iran's leadership changed post-1979... You mean the de facto dictatorship that was installed by an MI6 and CIA-instigated coup in 1953 and widely unpopular because, among other things, it used secret police to brutally suppress political dissent?

And replaced with the deeply unpopular Islamic republic? The current regime is extremely unpopular in Iran. The regime has around a 12% approval rating. Over 60% of Iranians want regime change. Ever more (69%) believe that the Islamic Republic should change its foreign policy, and stop calling for the destruction of Israel.

Iran investing 2-3% of its GDP (tens of billions per year) into funding a proxy-war against a country 2,000km away, that you had friendly relations with for decades, and has no desire for conflict with you, is an utterly insane foreign policy.

To demonstrate the insanity of this: this is the equivalent of the United States spending $750 billion every year a war with Costa Rica.

https://theconversation.com/iran-protests-2026-our-surveys-s...

https://gamaan.org/2025/11/05/12-day-war-survey-english/

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#27

Post by ElProlactin »

tristanj wrote: post #26
ElProlactin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iran's leadership changed post-1979... You mean the de facto dictatorship that was installed by an MI6 and CIA-instigated coup in 1953 and widely unpopular because, among other things, it used secret police to brutally suppress political dissent?

And replaced with the deeply unpopular Islamic republic? The current regime is extremely unpopular in Iran. The regime has around a 12% approval rating. Over 60% of Iranians want regime change. Ever more (69%) believe that the Islamic Republic should change its foreign policy, and stop calling for the destruction of Israel. Iran investing 2-3% of its GDP (tens of billions per year) into funding a proxy-war against a…

[flagged]

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#28

Post by tristanj »

ElProlactin wrote: post #27
tristanj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And replaced with the deeply unpopular Islamic republic? The current regime is extremely unpopular in Iran. The regime has around a 12% approval rating. Over 60% of Iranians want regime change. Ever more (69%) believe that the Islamic Republic should change its foreign policy, and stop calling for the destruction of Israel. Iran investing 2-3% of its GDP (tens of billions per year) into funding a proxy-war against a…

[flagged]

You've invented an argument I didn't make and then attacked it. That's a classic strawman.

I never mentioned a Western-backed dictatorship, the Shah, or any conditions about Israel recognition. You invented that.

My argument is simple: 60%+ of Iranians want regime change. 69% want the government to stop funding foreign proxy wars. The regime has a 12% approval rating. Iranians want something else. I cited polling data showing what Iranians want themselves. You can read the links I provided. The policies of the current regime are deeply unpopular.

I believe that spending 2-3% of GDP (tens of billions of dollars per year) fighting an adversary 2,000km away that you had friendly relations with for decades & has no desire for conflict with you is an utterly insane foreign policy. This money is much better spent invested into the Iranian people. Building infrastructure, investing in the Iranian people, and building the Iranian economy.

I did not advocate for a Western-backed dictatorship. The false choice you're presenting (Islamic republic vs Western puppet state) isn't the one Iranians are making. Iranians are not asking for a Western-backed dictatorship. Iranians are saying "stop spending our money blowing up the Middle East and end this pointless forever war with Israel". Iranians want a different foreign policy.

You also accused me of not caring about Iranians, while also defending a regime that 88% of Iranians disapprove of. That's a strange way to show you care about Iranians.

Re: Iran mulls taking control of all 7 cables passing through Strait of Hormuz

#29

Post by johnbarron »

tristanj wrote: post #2

By "control" Iran doesn't mean they will operate or maintain these cables. They mean "pay up, or we'll destroy these cables when we feel like it". Modern day piracy.

>> Modern day piracy.

"Israel seizes Gaza aid ships in international waters" - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-begins-inte...

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