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Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

nytimes.com

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Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#21

Post by atmavatar »

ericmay wrote: post #9
mcphage wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the war in Iran is very obviously justified, Wait, what now?

Can't have another North Korea sitting in the Middle East with control over so much oil supply. Don't want Gulf States to go and get nuclear weapons in response to Iran getting them (nuclear non-proliferation).

Keep in mind that there's only a risk of Iran gaining nuclear weapons in the first place because Trump in his first term reneged on the deal where we had inspectors in Iran to ensure they weren't making them.

Random, unprovoked attacks by other countries only underscores Iran's need to build nuclear weapons. Mission accomplished.

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#22

Post by guzfip »

ap99 wrote: post #12
mcphage wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the war in Iran is very obviously justified, Wait, what now?

[flagged]

> Trump could say we all should get more exercise and folks would say somehow exercise is bad for you.

No I’d say he’s a fat hypocrite lol.

Nothing more ironic then fat dementia patients trying to lecture you on health. Or junkies, or Turkish pill hucksters.

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#23

Post by legitster »

ericmay wrote: post #9
mcphage wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the war in Iran is very obviously justified, Wait, what now?

Can't have another North Korea sitting in the Middle East with control over so much oil supply. Don't want Gulf States to go and get nuclear weapons in response to Iran getting them (nuclear non-proliferation).

The JCPOA was very effective until Trump cancelled it without any consolations and upped sanctions for no reasons (Iran was cooperating!)

The progress of their enrichment program is purely a product of this administration's failed diplomacy.

Comparing Iran to North Korea is something someone with no actual understanding of Iran would do. Iran is not a hermit kingdom.

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#24

Post by mcphage »

ericmay wrote: post #9
mcphage wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the war in Iran is very obviously justified, Wait, what now?

Can't have another North Korea sitting in the Middle East with control over so much oil supply. Don't want Gulf States to go and get nuclear weapons in response to Iran getting them (nuclear non-proliferation).

Do you think this war is (a) likely to convince Iran to not pursue nuclear weapons, or (b) convince Iran that nuclear weapons are a necessity for their continued existence? I'm pretty sure it's (b), and that between Russia's attack on Ukraine, and the US's attack on Iran, all it will do is convince the rest of the world that they absolutely need nuclear weapons.

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#26

Post by ericmay »

mcphage wrote: post #24
ericmay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't have another North Korea sitting in the Middle East with control over so much oil supply. Don't want Gulf States to go and get nuclear weapons in response to Iran getting them (nuclear non-proliferation).

Do you think this war is (a) likely to convince Iran to not pursue nuclear weapons, or (b) convince Iran that nuclear weapons are a necessity for their continued existence? I'm pretty sure it's (b), and that between Russia's attack on Ukraine, and the US's attack on Iran, all it will do is convince the rest of the world that they absolutely need nuclear weapons.

Iran was already convinced that they needed to pursue nuclear weapons. They were still doing so under the JCPOA and even in cases where countries offered free, unlimited material for civilian nuclear reactors Iran refused. Why refuse? It's obvious.

They shouldn't have needed a JCPOA anyway - why was Iran pursuing nuclear weapons in the first place? The US didn't attack Iran in the early or mid-2000s, for example. Do we have a JCPOA style agreement with Brazil, or Thailand, or Italy? No. They just, as good faith partners in nuclear non-proliferation simply don't pursue nuclear weapons. Why is Iran different? Why does the rest of the world have to pay them to not pursue nuclear weapons?

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#27

Post by ericmay »

legitster wrote: post #23
ericmay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't have another North Korea sitting in the Middle East with control over so much oil supply. Don't want Gulf States to go and get nuclear weapons in response to Iran getting them (nuclear non-proliferation).

The JCPOA was very effective until Trump cancelled it without any consolations and upped sanctions for no reasons (Iran was cooperating!) The progress of their enrichment program is purely a product of this administration's failed diplomacy. Comparing Iran to North Korea is something someone with no actual understanding of Iran would do. Iran is not a hermit kingdom.

> Comparing Iran to North Korea is something someone with no actual understanding of Iran would do. Iran is not a hermit kingdom.

That was your comparison, not mine. My comparison was that once they obtain a nuclear weapon, there's nothing we can do anymore. They can obtain more, and then use them as a threat to tax the Straight, further enriching their regime, &c. That's what has happened to North Korea (minus the strategic position and of course it's slightly different due to China).

The JCPOA wasn't effective for two reasons:

1. We weren't getting the cooperation we needed in the first place to examine nuclear sites.

2. We shouldn't have to pay off Iran to not get nuclear weapons. Why do they get to be treated differently than any other country?

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#28

Post by benterix »

jmyeet wrote: post #19

One of the issues that came up when Russia invaded Ukraine was that Russia just didn't have the weapons they thought they did, particularly tanks. There's been a bunch of corruption where generals have pocketed funds and just kicked the can down the street. The US now spends $1T+ a year on war and is asking for $1.5T next year. At least half of that is weapon systems. A lot of these are probably way too expensive and…

> It's incredibly damaging to US interests too that they've been unable and/or unwilling to defend allies and their own bases in the Gulf.

The fact that the Gulf turned to Ukraine for protection is one of these strange turnouts one would never expect a few years ago.

Re: Iran war has drained U.S. supplies of critical, costly weapons

#30

Post by legitster »

ericmay wrote: post #27
legitster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JCPOA was very effective until Trump cancelled it without any consolations and upped sanctions for no reasons (Iran was cooperating!) The progress of their enrichment program is purely a product of this administration's failed diplomacy. Comparing Iran to North Korea is something someone with no actual understanding of Iran would do. Iran is not a hermit kingdom.

> Comparing Iran to North Korea is something someone with no actual understanding of Iran would do. Iran is not a hermit kingdom. That was your comparison, not mine. My comparison was that once they obtain a nuclear weapon, there's nothing we can do anymore. They can obtain more, and then use them as a threat to tax the Straight, further enriching their regime, &c. That's what has happened to North Korea (minus the s…

Those JCPOA concerns are pure Fox New lore:

1. We had anytime/anywhere access to their nuclear facilities and 24 day access to any square inch of their country. They never violated that part of the agreement and it's also silly to think intelligence didn't already know where all the facilities were.

2. The payments were a trivial part of the deal. It's especially ironic given this administration keeps offering payments to end the current conflict.

The reality is any deal we sign today is going to be substantially worse in every way for us than the JCPOA was.

> Why do they get to be treated differently than any other country?

This is the crux of the thing though. North Korea, Pakistan, Israel, and even South Africa all had successful and clandestine nuclear programs without any military intervention. Going to war with Iran is completely arbitrary - there is no direct threat to the US, and we did it without any cooperation with any of the countries actually dependent on Gulf oil.

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