Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 501 posts

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#21

Post by nomorewords »

phailhaus wrote: post #19
ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

Voter registration already requires proof of citizenship. What is the point of requiring that high bar of proof on the day of voting as well?

Why have voter registration?

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#22

Post by kanapala »

ritzaco wrote: post #12

I don't care how much maths and encryption you use, you can't get out of the fact that things can be anonymous (no one can know how you voted) or verifiable (people can prove that you only voted once) but not both. - Switzerland usually gets around this by knowing where everyone lives and mailing them a piece of paper 'something you have' - South Africa gets around this by putting ink on your fingernail I've read qui…

There's a goverment issued public & private key right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#23

Post by jjgreen »

Alifatisk wrote: post #14
jjgreen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to truncate the title since too long for HN (often the case for the Register)

You cut out something that changed the message entirely

I thought the edit window was 15 minutes, but it seems it is an hour, so edited to restore the "pilot"

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#24

Post by grosswait »

phailhaus wrote: post #19
ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

Voter registration already requires proof of citizenship. What is the point of requiring that high bar of proof on the day of voting as well?

How is it a high bar of proof if it is already required? Edit: and already met

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#25

Post by Waterluvian »

ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

I think a lot of what you argue might make sense for American elections where you're voting for an absolutely ridiculous number of things.

I'm not sure how it is in Switzerland, but in Canada I will vote for maybe three candidates in five years. And I don't mean three visits to the polls (though it's usually that), I mean three actual checkbox ticks for people to count. They're paper ballots and the counting is done that night. I think if we were stuck voting for like forty different races every two years it would be a very different story and a lot of what you say would resonate with me more. Except the voter registration stuff.

We're pretty flexible about registration up here and it works. My wife one year showed up with some mail that had her name/address, and me vouching for her. Though I think a lot of the luxuries of democracy are most easily enjoyed with a trusting, cooperative culture that isn't constantly wound up about being cheated by the others.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#26

Post by caminanteblanco »

phoronixrly wrote: post #16
ritzaco wrote: post #12

I don't care how much maths and encryption you use, you can't get out of the fact that things can be anonymous (no one can know how you voted) or verifiable (people can prove that you only voted once) but not both. - Switzerland usually gets around this by knowing where everyone lives and mailing them a piece of paper 'something you have' - South Africa gets around this by putting ink on your fingernail I've read qui…

> At some point, you have to give someone access to a database and they can change that database. It's the only problem in existence that can be solved by the blockchain...

But generally sacrifices that anonymous axis via a reproduceable public ledger

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#27

Post by phoronixrly »

palata wrote: post #10
zoobab wrote: post #6

eVoting cannot be understood and audited by normal citizens, not even by nerdy ones. It's just good for the trash.

Also e-voting can be hacked (I guess they vote from their computer/smartphone, which can be hacked from the other side of the world). The last place you want to care about phishing, IMO, is voting. Good luck hacking in-person voting or even "physical" mail voting from the other side of the world.

Regular ballot voting can also be hacked and on a scale. Making ballots invalid while counting them, or modifying them in some form or other, intentionally writing wrong values in the counting protocols...

And of course controlled vote or paid vote...

E-voting can and has also led to exposing voting fraud -- see Venezuella.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#28

Post by stetrain »

ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship

I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens.

This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expensive, then you are effectively restricting voting access for citizens. A measure to place stricter qualifications on voting access needs to also carefully consider and account for providing access to all citizens.

The US is a geographically very large place with worse public transportation options compared to many other countries, and with that comes differences in economic and accessibility considerations for things like "Just go to your county's office and get a qualifying ID."

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#29

Post by phoronixrly »

caminanteblanco wrote: post #26
phoronixrly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point, you have to give someone access to a database and they can change that database. It's the only problem in existence that can be solved by the blockchain...

But generally sacrifices that anonymous axis via a reproduceable public ledger

Unless pseudonymized...

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#30

Post by presentation »

kanapala wrote: post #22
ritzaco wrote: post #12

I don't care how much maths and encryption you use, you can't get out of the fact that things can be anonymous (no one can know how you voted) or verifiable (people can prove that you only voted once) but not both. - Switzerland usually gets around this by knowing where everyone lives and mailing them a piece of paper 'something you have' - South Africa gets around this by putting ink on your fingernail I've read qui…

There's a goverment issued public & private key right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card

Japan has them built into My Number Cards too https://www.digital.go.jp/en/policies/mynumber/private-busin...
Post reply on HN