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Maybe you’re not trying

usefulfictions.substack.com

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Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#21

Post by bsenftner »

Etheryte wrote: post #6

This is an idea that philosophers have played with in countless varieties, perhaps the one closest to the author's wording is Jean-Paul Sartre's concept of bad faith. Faced with anxiety, guilt or overwhelming weight of responsibility, it's often easier to subconsciously sidestep the problem and pretend you don't have a choice, even if you do. This is not even a conscious decision, it's hard to be aware of our own qui…

Sounds to me like this "bad faith" mechanism has been weaponized, and is literally how the public is controlled in the United States, maintained in a state of apathy towards the violation of everything the nation claims as a core value.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#22

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

lisper wrote: post #17

I think the "maybe you're not actually trying" framing is not very constructive. The author did try, making decisions and taking actions that seemed appropriate for her situation at the time. The problem was that because her attempts to solve the problem failed -- again and again and again -- she stopped trying. Which is a not-entirely-unreasonable thing to do. I would frame it more like: just because you have tried…

That’s a great point, and was how I felt about it, after reading the article.

She did ask for help (more accurately, she accepted help from a trusted source). That was what made the difference. Someone came in with a new approach vector.

She sounds like a fairly remarkable person, so failure isn’t necessarily an indication of incompetence. Rather, it can be an issue of approach. We can get fixated on a particular workflow.

Humans are a social animal. We’re not built to “go it alone,” and that’s really our “secret sauce.” The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#23

Post by balamatom »

yetihehe wrote: post #12
h33t-l4x0r wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion. I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility,…

Sounds fun - I'd slap back!

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#24

Post by gyomu »

lisper wrote: post #17

I think the "maybe you're not actually trying" framing is not very constructive. The author did try, making decisions and taking actions that seemed appropriate for her situation at the time. The problem was that because her attempts to solve the problem failed -- again and again and again -- she stopped trying. Which is a not-entirely-unreasonable thing to do. I would frame it more like: just because you have tried…

Also see

“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life.” Jean-Luc Picard

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#25

Post by dsego »

> But the feeling of effort doesn’t mean that you’re Actually Trying.

For me, this is the standout line right there. It just so happens that for some reason we determine these limits for ourselves and operate within them. So you have a feeling of doing all you can, but you are still operating within the self-imposed limits.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#26

Post by atoav »

Etheryte wrote: post #6

This is an idea that philosophers have played with in countless varieties, perhaps the one closest to the author's wording is Jean-Paul Sartre's concept of bad faith. Faced with anxiety, guilt or overwhelming weight of responsibility, it's often easier to subconsciously sidestep the problem and pretend you don't have a choice, even if you do. This is not even a conscious decision, it's hard to be aware of our own qui…

Paradoxically some things with human bodies work like that: Back pain? One of the best ways of usually getting rid of it is using your back more and building muscle.

I once worked with a guy who was a grandmaster at finding rational explainations of why they needed to do the thing that clearly was bad for them. He was overweight, but every time he ate both extremely unhealthy and much next to us he would explain how his body needs that because he would get a bad mood etc. His excuse not to make sports was some sports accident he had 30 years ago as a 18 years old (a medical condition I happened to knew very well because my marathon-running brother had it as well). For every other sport he also had some excuse, be it cost, traffic, weather, other people doing it being douchebags or whatever. This went all the way to making up a medical condition that gave him a excuse why he cannot visit his estranged child.

This guy had an absolutely phenomenal skill level when it came to self deception. And it only became better when his overweight led to a medical condition and his doctor hammered home that he is going to die if he continues on at this path.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#27

Post by 8bitbeep »

gyomu wrote: post #24
lisper wrote: post #17

I think the "maybe you're not actually trying" framing is not very constructive. The author did try, making decisions and taking actions that seemed appropriate for her situation at the time. The problem was that because her attempts to solve the problem failed -- again and again and again -- she stopped trying. Which is a not-entirely-unreasonable thing to do. I would frame it more like: just because you have tried…

Also see “It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life.” Jean-Luc Picard

Also, not everything is a competition that needs to be won.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#28

Post by h33t-l4x0r »

ozzydave wrote: post #18
h33t-l4x0r wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people will accept a brain tumor as an excuse for bad behavior, but not low blood sugar. I have successfully convinced people that hungry judges have less agency than full ones, though. (google hungry judge effect if you're curious).

The original study was flawed I’m afraid https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41091803

Someone always brings that up. I guess you couldn't help it?

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#29

Post by ekjhgkejhgk »

> I learned his real name and used it to track down an old friend of his to ask for help

Does anybody else find this strange? There's this person whose name you don't even know, but somehow you know who his old friends are? This is not a situation I'm familiar with.

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