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Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

viteplus.dev

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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#21

Post by foresterre »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

On the other hand, with Node on the server we're now jumping into the ESM and nodenext/esnext mess with its .js imports.

This less a problem when your project is on the web though, because vite (and I think under the hood esbuild) transforms the imports gracefully.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#22

Post by debazel »

0x696C6961 wrote: post #13
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.

It doesn't seem like this project is intended to replace the existing tools, but rather combine them into a more convenient bundle.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#23

Post by joaohaas »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

>and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt...

You do know that Vite uses a lot of these behind the scenes right? Vite in general has much better defaults so that you don't have to configure them most of the time, but anything a bit out of the box will still require messing with the configs extensively.

Not like OPs Vite+ changes anything regarding that.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#25

Post by whstl »

dvt wrote: post #16
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

> much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. What? That mess is still ongoing. Next.js for example (probably the most popular "out of the box" solution) technically uses SWC, but not quite, because it doesn't support `styled-components` so you need to use Babel for that. But wait, you might also need to use tailwind, and for that you'll need…

Fine, then, I'll amend: that mess is still ongoing outside people who choose to not use this toolchain for one reason or another.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#26

Post by josteink »

skydhash wrote: post #15
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…

> Even autotools feels nice in comparison to that mayhem.

For all its warts and all the hate that it gets, at least autotools is stable and not introducing breaking changes.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#27

Post by whstl »

joaohaas wrote: post #23
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

>and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt... You do know that Vite uses a lot of these behind the scenes right? Vite in general has much better defaults so that you don't have to configure them most of the time, but anything a bit out of the box will still require messing with the configs extensively. Not like OPs Vite+ changes anything regarding that.

Not "a lot of those".

It used Rollup.

And it does so transparently, while the alternative, Rolldown, was being finished.

To me this sounds like a more than acceptable compromise in the interim.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#28

Post by skydhash »

dvt wrote: post #16
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

> much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. What? That mess is still ongoing. Next.js for example (probably the most popular "out of the box" solution) technically uses SWC, but not quite, because it doesn't support `styled-components` so you need to use Babel for that. But wait, you might also need to use tailwind, and for that you'll need…

React/Vue/Svelte/... are pretty nice ideas and the required tooling to make them work on top of CoreJS is not that extensive of an effort. The main issue is the complexity introduced by building everything and anything on top of each other as you described.

In the C world, most tools are orthogonal. The compilers don't need to know about the design of the package managers and the task runners don't care about either. Yes, we have glue tooling, but that is also and external project and the dependencies are interfaces instead of monkey-patching each other.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#29

Post by nunobrito »

Don't get me wrong but at this point you might as well just use Java instead of javascript to build web pages.

Vite is basically replicating what one would expect as normal behaviour from the JDK + IDE has been doing since years. Javascript was meant to be readable for an open web, nowadays it is compiled into a puddle of text.

It is OK to reinvent the wheel, it just doesn't look much better than the old one.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#30

Post by avhception »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

I'm not even a JS dev, I support the CI pipelines and Docker images and whatnot. It's something else every week. When I get it to work eventually, it's brittle as hell. I just want the madness to stop. I don't even care any more.
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