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Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

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21–30 of 31 posts

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#21

I never use color names (except if I quick want to set a color in CSS for testing purposes) so I wonder who is using color names and why? Does all this has any real world implications?

As a casual user and coder, I use them, because I don't know what #FF00FF or #00FFFF look like, but I do recognize magenta or cyan instantly. Though, support for hexcodes has become better in editors, so it's now a mixed experience.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, green is the brightest primary after accounting for typical human vision and typical monitors. The YUV formulas put at nearly twice as bright as red. So a normal display has more green than you'd need, and 00ff00 green has terrible contrast against ffffff white

Extra nitpick.. green isn't even a primary colour. Red, Yellow, Blue are the primary colours that our eyes perceive. Perhaps this contributes to why the RGB numbering doesn't meet human perception of green?

No you have S, M and L cones in your eyes, which represent (roughly) blue, green and red. Your eyes are most sensitive to green and yellow because the spectrum of the M and L cones overlaps. This is why a lot of sRGB is green and why the Bayer pattern has one red, one blue and two green elements. Red, yellow and blue are the primary colors used in art education.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#23

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

In Unity3D Game Engine, "Yellow" as a named color is not #ffff00 but #ffeb04, the documentation says "RGBA is (1, 0.92, 0.016, 1), but the color is nice to look at!". I bet this bit the ass of thousands of developers that used it assuming it would be #ffff00 and then wondering why the output color somewhere was wrong.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#25

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

The naming is supposed to make sense for humans, not machines. Technically the "greenest green" from a technical POV is #00FF00, but the humans understanding of "green" is something more like #008000.

> the humans understanding of "green" is something more like #008000

That claim feels wrong. Colours are a concept on the level of the culture, not on the level of the species.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#26
post #4

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

My guess? Most green things you see are a darker green. The extremely bright green (lime according to the W3C) is less useful, so they probably chose the color based on what they thought the user would expect. Given that RGB is well-known, I suspect their assumption was wrong, but I have nothing to back that up.

> they probably chose the color based on what they thought the user would expect.

just like everything in SW development in the last 10 years. SW is supposed to be an engineering discipline, not a witchcraft.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#27
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess? Most green things you see are a darker green. The extremely bright green (lime according to the W3C) is less useful, so they probably chose the color based on what they thought the user would expect. Given that RGB is well-known, I suspect their assumption was wrong, but I have nothing to back that up.

Also, green is the brightest primary after accounting for typical human vision and typical monitors. The YUV formulas put at nearly twice as bright as red. So a normal display has more green than you'd need, and 00ff00 green has terrible contrast against ffffff white

> typical human vision and typical monitors

Examples ? My "typical human vision" is worse than it was some years ago and my "typical monitors" are different with every iteration.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#28
post #16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to use them in both X11 and CSS way back in the day. They were really common in X11, because a lot of users were on pseudocolor displays and it made sense to reuse colors as much as possible. If you used uncommon colors in your program on - for example - a Sparcstation 20, the palette would shift every time you moved the mouse in or out of your window. It's difficult to describe to someone that's never seen it…

Here is a youtube video for Windows 3.1 on 16 color palette EGA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATMVrHfrus8

Pseudocolor was a different thing. The palette wasn't fixed. The adapter could display any color in a 24-bit color space, but only 256 colors at once. So if you had one program that used one palette and another program that used a different palette on the screen at the same time, whichever program wasn't active would have its colors scrambled.

Windows never used pseudocolor as far as I know.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, green is the brightest primary after accounting for typical human vision and typical monitors. The YUV formulas put at nearly twice as bright as red. So a normal display has more green than you'd need, and 00ff00 green has terrible contrast against ffffff white

Extra nitpick.. green isn't even a primary colour. Red, Yellow, Blue are the primary colours that our eyes perceive. Perhaps this contributes to why the RGB numbering doesn't meet human perception of green?

Those are primary pigment colors (arguably... Should be magenta, cyan, and yellow). Those remove light to make color. Red, green, and blue are the additive primary colors.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The naming is supposed to make sense for humans, not machines. Technically the "greenest green" from a technical POV is #00FF00, but the humans understanding of "green" is something more like #008000.

> the humans understanding of "green" is something more like #008000 That claim feels wrong. Colours are a concept on the level of the culture, not on the level of the species.

The humans at MIT's Project Athena, then.
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