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Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

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Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#11

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

The naming is supposed to make sense for humans, not machines. Technically the "greenest green" from a technical POV is #00FF00, but the humans understanding of "green" is something more like #008000.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#13
post #8

I never use color names (except if I quick want to set a color in CSS for testing purposes) so I wonder who is using color names and why? Does all this has any real world implications?

As touched on in the article, the beauty of colour names would be that they’re celebrated for the machine. #124356 might look different on one monitor or workstation compared to another. Having colour names which are calibrated for the device makes a lot of sense. Assuming those colour names are actually calibrated, which as the article also mentions, so often wasn’t the case. As an aside, this is a big problem in DT…

CSS named colors are just aliases for specific RGB values. They are not any more calibrated than using those RGB values directly.

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess? Most green things you see are a darker green. The extremely bright green (lime according to the W3C) is less useful, so they probably chose the color based on what they thought the user would expect. Given that RGB is well-known, I suspect their assumption was wrong, but I have nothing to back that up.

Also, green is the brightest primary after accounting for typical human vision and typical monitors. The YUV formulas put at nearly twice as bright as red. So a normal display has more green than you'd need, and 00ff00 green has terrible contrast against ffffff white

Extra nitpick.. green isn't even a primary colour. Red, Yellow, Blue are the primary colours that our eyes perceive. Perhaps this contributes to why the RGB numbering doesn't meet human perception of green?

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#15

I never use color names (except if I quick want to set a color in CSS for testing purposes) so I wonder who is using color names and why? Does all this has any real world implications?

Default system theme in browser uses x11 colour scheme, atleast in Firefox

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#16
post #5

I never use color names (except if I quick want to set a color in CSS for testing purposes) so I wonder who is using color names and why? Does all this has any real world implications?

I used to use them in both X11 and CSS way back in the day. They were really common in X11, because a lot of users were on pseudocolor displays and it made sense to reuse colors as much as possible. If you used uncommon colors in your program on - for example - a Sparcstation 20, the palette would shift every time you moved the mouse in or out of your window. It's difficult to describe to someone that's never seen it…

Here is a youtube video for Windows 3.1 on 16 color palette EGA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATMVrHfrus8

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#17

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

A #00ff00 green is gonna be much, much brighter and more intense than a #0000ff blue. If we call #0000ff "blue", it makes sense that the color called "green" should be of similar brightness/intensity to the color we call "blue".

Not that it's very consistent. The color called "red" is #ff0000, which looks brighter than both #008800 and #0000ff IMO. And arguably, "blue" shouldn't be #0000ff, since that's just not a very pleasent color. I think I might've been tempted to go with something like, red = #cc0000, green = #008800, blue = #0055ff. Or maybe go all the way and specify the colors in some perceptual color space rather than using RGB. But oh well.

(The color #0000ff for "blue" is super over used IMO. Most terminal emulators default to it as well and it just makes blue text hard to read in most out-of-the-box configurations. To get a nice blue color, you need some green in there.)

Re: Clashes between web and X11 colors in the CSS color scheme

#19

The definition of grey is totally debatable, but in W3C spec Green = #008000 (instead of #00FF00, which is called Lime?) makes no sense. How did it happen?

This comes from the original HTML 3.2 spec (1996) which defined 16 colors matching the Windows VGA palette, where pure #00FF00 was deemed too bright for general use, so they chose the more muted #008000 for "green" and later kept it for backward compatibility.
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