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People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

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Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#21

Post by Tor3 »

rayiner wrote: post #4
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s sad to see a country just fade away. I hope they can convince their people to breed more or let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture.

> let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture. Impossible.

Not impossible. Other countries could. Also remember that culture is a living thing, it's not static. It changes and adjusts and adapts and incorporates. My little hometown was just us "natives" in my childhood, now at the other end of time it has people and languages from more than a hundred countries, and we're all "natives" to this town. Very different from before, but much more interesting and I don't feel we have lost anything, culturally, from before.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#23

Post by jesterson »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #9
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s sad to see a country just fade away. I hope they can convince their people to breed more or let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture.

Their culture is the reason that they're fading away. Perhaps it's time to change some parts in big ways in order to protect other parts.

Perhaps you can enlighten what part of their culture makes them "fade away"?

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#24

Post by fatfingerd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #20
smrq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humanity can't figure out how to handle population decline, then it's doomed, full stop. There's only so much planet to go around; there's a finite limit somewhere. Rather than treating population decline as the issue, perhaps focusing on the actual issues that it exposes would be prudent. As it is now, we're just making every new generation into a layer of a global pyramid scheme.

> If humanity can't figure out how to handle population decline, then it's doomed, full stop. If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop. > There's only so much planet to go around; there's a finite limit somewhere. Perhaps, but the existence of an asymptote to growth doesn't imply a need to ever switch to decline. The normal shape of a resource constrained growth curve is logi…

> If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop

There's nothing about the types of decline we are seeing that imply they are perpetual. I think these declines are a positive alternative to having decline roman empire style whenever we get too close to a political stalemate in resource allocation.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#25

Post by dragonwriter »

fatfingerd wrote: post #24
dragonwriter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If humanity can't figure out how to handle population decline, then it's doomed, full stop. If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop. > There's only so much planet to go around; there's a finite limit somewhere. Perhaps, but the existence of an asymptote to growth doesn't imply a need to ever switch to decline. The normal shape of a resource constrained growth curve is logi…

> If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop There's nothing about the types of decline we are seeing that imply they are perpetual. I think these declines are a positive alternative to having decline roman empire style whenever we get too close to a political stalemate in resource allocation.

> There's nothing about the types of decline we are seeing that imply they are perpetual.

The types of decline we are seeing are local and temporary and don't require humanity to figure out how to deal with decline at all, because humanity continues growing.

I’m responding to the suggestion of something meaningfully different than what we are seeing.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#26

Post by Tor3 »

willcipriano wrote: post #7
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s sad to see a country just fade away. I hope they can convince their people to breed more or let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture.

In the long term human populations have fluctuated wildly. As demographics get bad and Japan gets poorer I'd bet they will start having more children.

You have to look at why the birthrate is low. People are working themselves to (nearly) death, and the worsening demographics is not helping. It's hard to commit to have three children (which is what everybody will have to aim for if the birthrate is to hold or grow) when you go to work in the early hours and come home after ten PM (or later, as people I know do), and when salaries haven't actually increased since forever. Japan getting poorer doesn't look like it would help. One thing which probably could help would be companies and the public system (e.g. schools) stopping ordering employees to suddenly move to some other city every few years. That's hard for aspiring families.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#27

Post by Crusoe123 »

jesterson wrote: post #22
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s sad to see a country just fade away. I hope they can convince their people to breed more or let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture.

[flagged]

Nice xenophobia there buddy

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#28

Post by Cymrukicks »

jesterson wrote: post #23
givemeethekeys wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their culture is the reason that they're fading away. Perhaps it's time to change some parts in big ways in order to protect other parts.

Perhaps you can enlighten what part of their culture makes them "fade away"?

Well the lack of focus on family and making it economically, culturally and politically beneficial to younger people especially women to have children would be an extremely obvious one.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#30

Post by ffgjgf1 »

fatfingerd wrote: post #24
dragonwriter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If humanity can't figure out how to handle population decline, then it's doomed, full stop. If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop. > There's only so much planet to go around; there's a finite limit somewhere. Perhaps, but the existence of an asymptote to growth doesn't imply a need to ever switch to decline. The normal shape of a resource constrained growth curve is logi…

> If it is going to enter a state of perpetual decline, then it is doomed, full stop There's nothing about the types of decline we are seeing that imply they are perpetual. I think these declines are a positive alternative to having decline roman empire style whenever we get too close to a political stalemate in resource allocation.

The Roman empire was unsustainable though since it was built entirely on exploitation. Turns out paying the barbarians to leave you in peace is significantly cheaper than the taxes for the army (by the end almost entirely staffed by the same barbarians) to protect you from them.

Also the collapse occurred in parallel with climate change and plague which were responsible for most of the population decline.

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