How to Become a Must-Have • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#21

Post by JarekS » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 10:47 AM UTC

As a founder of a B2B startup I think that your article is great! I think that this quote from Steve Jobs is a perfect fit here:

When you first start off trying to solve a problem, the first solutions you come up with are very complex, and most people stop there. But if you keep going, and live with the problem and peel more layers of the onion off, you can often times arrive at some very elegant and simple solutions.

I wish I UNDERSTOOD (very different then "I wish I knew") that 2 years ago when I was starting my company. Focusing on the problem, discussing it with the people that actually have that problem and not jumping immediately to solutions but "peel the onion" is something very very very hard to do.

Hope that next episodes of your article will provide more info about HOW to peel that onion :)

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#22

Post by roryokane » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 12:24 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #17

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

Then you wasted an opportunity to learn something from a very insightful article because of a superficial detail. I'm not entirely sure why that's something you're proud enough of to post a comment about it. Seems like a flawed outlook on life to discard a message because of a single superficial detail in its delivery.

If everyone had infinite time to read articles on the internet, it would be best to keep reading and possibly learn something useful from the article despite its error. Since we don’t have that much time, we have to decide which articles are worth reading – there is a lot of nonsense on the internet that is a waste of time to read (Sturgeon's law). Errors of sufficient number and magnitude at the beginning of the article indicate a higher likelihood that the rest of the article is too nonsensical to bother reading, i.e. that the ratio of usefulness to time spent is too low.

Now, maybe you disagree that a graph with loops is that big of an error. But then you should write about the graph specifically. I don’t think you have grounds for disagreement with the basic principle of generalizing the quality of an article from part of it and using that estimate to decide whether to continue spending your time on reading that article.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#23

Post by edsull » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 2:19 PM UTC

ABrandt wrote: post #9

edsull wrote: post #6

None of this startup porn is new. The best source I've found discussing all stages of company development is Geoffrey Moore's work (Crossing the Chasm and Inside the Tornado).

The OP does draw a comparison between his ideas and Moore's Crossing the Chasm. I agree there's a lot of buzz-like words thrown around, but there is substance here. There's an actionable suggestion for finding the monitizable pain (or any other term you want to give it). His plan instructs you to call a specific person, to convey a specific message, and measure for a specific success rate. I'd say this is useful and…

I agree and sorry for not being more clear. This article along with a lot of the current startup philosophies help with finding the initial market and traction. My challenge has always been what to do next. Focusing on the pain is part of the equation. The other critical factor, once a company moves out of the zone of early adopters, is the buying process of the main stream shifts dramatically. It's a sales and marketing scale issue vs. product and tech issue. (Although, as I write this, I'm realizing this may only be true for b2b products vs. b2c)

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#24

Post by SatvikBeri » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 3:45 PM UTC

edsull wrote: post #6

None of this startup porn is new. The best source I've found discussing all stages of company development is Geoffrey Moore's work (Crossing the Chasm and Inside the Tornado).

The overall message is old ("talk to your customers!"), but I found the concrete suggestions (cold call and say "do you have this problem?", measure the amount of time someone spends talking about a problem) very valuable.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#25

Post by smartfastartup » Sat, Dec 31, 2011, 8:02 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

Sorry for the confusion. I left off the axis labels because the graph was merely a conceptual contrast to the tired hockey stick curve.The idea of its iterative shape, relative to a hockey stick, is the important point.

But I actually like your point because its interesting (a little) to think about what the axes have to be for those shapes to work.

There is probably no confusion around the y axis representing traction - whatever metric is meaningful for the business at that stage. It could be users, or revenue, or engagement, etc.

That pesky x axis is the issue. In the second graph, it cannot be time, as many have pointed out. And that's confusing because the x axis in the first graph of the hockey stick shape is usually time. The x axis in the second graph could instead be a measure of learning, or perhaps product development as one commenter suggested. It probably works best as degree of product/market fit. As prod/mkt fit increases with iterations, so does traction.