How to Become a Must-Have • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#11

Post by motoford » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 5:56 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

I thought the "graphs" were a good illustration of ups and downs combined with design iterations and user gain/loss cycles. Of course they were abstract but they got the point across.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#12

Post by uurayan » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:31 AM UTC

This is actually a very solid insight, the value of the problem you're solving with your app can be determined by the amount of time someone will complain to you about it, especially busy people.

Sound so simple but its amazing how many "entrepreneurs" are terrified of talking to potential customers and end up wasting a ton of tie developing things nobody wants.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#13

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:35 AM UTC

damovisa wrote: post #8

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

I read a little way into the article to see whether he'd explain the lack of axis labels or just how the graph maps to anything real. Nope. The article is reasonable but the loops just annoyed me too much.

I had the same thought at the first glance at the loopy graph, but decided to take off my nerd hat and put on my "I'm listening to a business guy" hat. I think this is something we tech people tend to get hung up on too much... snickering at the slightly misused technical jargon and other similar errors (like this graph) that business people make and then not being able to hear what the person is actually saying.

Any non-technical, non-mathmatical person would look at that graph and say "yeah, you go around in circles for a while and then finally get things worked out" and I actually thought this was a pretty good post otherwise.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#14

Post by five18pm » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 7:59 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #13

damovisa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a little way into the article to see whether he'd explain the lack of axis labels or just how the graph maps to anything real. Nope. The article is reasonable but the loops just annoyed me too much.

I had the same thought at the first glance at the loopy graph, but decided to take off my nerd hat and put on my "I'm listening to a business guy" hat. I think this is something we tech people tend to get hung up on too much... snickering at the slightly misused technical jargon and other similar errors (like this graph) that business people make and then not being able to hear what the person is actually saying. Any…

In a different location Mark does talk about the x-axis - the x-axis is "Time and Money"

http://smartfaststartup.com/2011/06/08/real-secret-to-startu...

Which make the loops palatable.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#15

Post by greendestiny » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 8:30 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

It doesn't represent data or a function - its just an illustration that borrowed from graph lexicon. Had it been styled as 'serious' graph it would have actually been misleading.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#16

Post by redguava » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 8:31 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

Sadly I was the same, they lost me at that second graph. Even if I was to excuse the ability to go back in time, I just don't believe that really illustrates how failed products go (ie. very strong growth and then just as fast decline), most wouldn't have the level of traction indicated there.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#17

Post by swombat » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 9:41 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

Then you wasted an opportunity to learn something from a very insightful article because of a superficial detail. I'm not entirely sure why that's something you're proud enough of to post a comment about it. Seems like a flawed outlook on life to discard a message because of a single superficial detail in its delivery.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#18

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 10:40 AM UTC

five18pm wrote: post #14

ams6110 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thought at the first glance at the loopy graph, but decided to take off my nerd hat and put on my "I'm listening to a business guy" hat. I think this is something we tech people tend to get hung up on too much... snickering at the slightly misused technical jargon and other similar errors (like this graph) that business people make and then not being able to hear what the person is actually saying. Any…

In a different location Mark does talk about the x-axis - the x-axis is "Time and Money" http://smartfaststartup.com/2011/06/08/real-secret-to-startu... Which make the loops palatable.

Yeah, quoting from that link:

"He was saying a real startup trajectory might look something more like this" (emphasis mine)

When we're graphing trajectories, not functions, loops are certainly allowed (see e.g. phase diagrams[1]). Still, without labeled axis those graphs are pretty much meaningless, so I treat them more like an conceptual illustration.

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_space

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#19

Post by SkiAlta » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 10:44 AM UTC

uurayan wrote: post #12

This is actually a very solid insight, the value of the problem you're solving with your app can be determined by the amount of time someone will complain to you about it, especially busy people. Sound so simple but its amazing how many "entrepreneurs" are terrified of talking to potential customers and end up wasting a ton of tie developing things nobody wants.

Agree. This is a fresh and disruptive approach to solving one of the biggest problems entrepreneurs face, but are afraid to ask or don't know how to ask. Am I building anything anyone wants to buy? Taking this question off the table before you start coding makes a ton of sense.

Re: How to Become a Must-Have

#20

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 10:45 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #4

I can't really treat this article seriously when his second graph illustrating "real" growth of startups requires that we are able to breach time-space continuum and go back in time.

I wouldn't bother about loops, they are allowed if you're not graphing functions[1] and are quite common on (x1/x2) graphs as opposed to (x/t) graphs.

My real issue with it are unlabeled axis - without them those graphs have no meaning except as an conceptual illustration of an idea that something loops around while growing. Also, OP assumed that x is time, which it does not have to be for the "graphs" to make sense.

[1] - see e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_space

tl; dt: nitpicking, and also picking the wrong nit.