Switzerland also recently stopped using gender as a factor in determining retirement age
How recently? I remember there was a referendum to make the age equal in 2017 or 2018, but the proposal was rejected at the time.
Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
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Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
You’ve got it backward. European courts have been more respectful of the democratic process when it comes to social laws than Republican-majority Supreme Courts in the US. 5 of the 7 Justices in the Roe majority were Republicans.
Respectful of the democratic process? I get opposing the Roe reversal, but Roe wasn’t created by the democratic process any more than it was just overturned by it.
And the democratic process could pass Roe as law tomorrow, if it so chose.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Women have been able to vote in Switzerland for, what, 30 years now? A bit behind a lot of other countries for sure, but let's not act like that has or should have any bearing on this subject of this post.
1971 it's burned into my brain
So even longer! I was under the impression, for whatever reason, that it happened in the 90's. Looks like 50 years would have been closer to the mark.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why doesn’t that restraint apply in this situation?
Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights is pretty cut and dry: > ARTICLE 14 Prohibition of discrimination The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. I s…
I don’t know how to read this as saying it’s ok to prohibit choosing based on sex.
Doesn’t this forbid restrictions on same-sex marriage?
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’ve got it backward. European courts have been more respectful of the democratic process when it comes to social laws than Republican-majority Supreme Courts in the US. 5 of the 7 Justices in the Roe majority were Republicans.
Respectful of the democratic process? I get opposing the Roe reversal, but Roe wasn’t created by the democratic process any more than it was just overturned by it. And the democratic process could pass Roe as law tomorrow, if it so chose.
I think that's the point? The comment you're replying to seems to be saying that the US supreme court has been disrespecting the democratic process for quite a while, so blaming it on the current makeup doesn't really fit.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights is pretty cut and dry: > ARTICLE 14 Prohibition of discrimination The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. I s…
I don’t know how to read this as saying it’s ok to prohibit choosing based on sex. Doesn’t this forbid restrictions on same-sex marriage?
I'm sure if a court case were brought to their attention they'd agree with you. Might be similar to how the US SC (and other high courts) doesn't weigh in until lower courts have made a ruling, which means someone had to file suit for them to even take a look.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s typical for courts in Europe. For example, I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
> The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does. This is in part because the US legal system is based on common law / case law, whereas most of Europe is based on civil law.
I've been thinking of late that the role of lawyers in shaping US laws and institutions is under appreciated. Deference to courts is probably a result of that.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know how to read this as saying it’s ok to prohibit choosing based on sex. Doesn’t this forbid restrictions on same-sex marriage?
I'm sure if a court case were brought to their attention they'd agree with you. Might be similar to how the US SC (and other high courts) doesn't weigh in until lower courts have made a ruling, which means someone had to file suit for them to even take a look.
The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly faced the question of gay marriage and has denied the find such a right each time. One of the more recent cases is Chapin and Charpentier v. France, 2016:
> In Chapin and Charpentier v. France, 2016, the Court reiterated that neither Article 12, nor Article 14 in conjunction with Article 8, which was more general in purpose and scope, could be interpreted as imposing an obligation on the Contracting States to open marriage to same sex couples.
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Guide_Art_12_ENG.pdf (see also https://eclj.org/marriage/the-echr-unanimously-confirms-the-...)
I don't know much about European law but it seems one of the principal reasons is that Articles 8 and 12 specifically speak to marriage and are worded in a manner (in the court's opinion) which presume heterosexual marriages, effectively circumscribing the scope of potential Article 14 anti-discrimination protections wrt marriage.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
1971 it's burned into my brain
So even longer! I was under the impression, for whatever reason, that it happened in the 90's. Looks like 50 years would have been closer to the mark.
Some local elections didn't allow women until the 90s, but universal suffrage for national elections was a few decades earlier
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that Swiss women didn’t vote until (relatively) recently is not important. The fact that the were subject to ECHR jurisdiction is. The ECHR has immense respect for countries political processes, and allows all sorts of nasty laws (gay marriage bans, etc). My point is that this sort of micromanagement does not seem consistent with the ECHRs usual hands-off approach.
That’s typical for courts in Europe. For example, I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
Austria would be one such country. Technically, a law was passed but a court decided that a law must be passed and if the government didn't it would have been dismissed.