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Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

arstechnica.com

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Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#21

Post by comorbidlyobese »

mountainriver wrote: post #3

I would love to see proof of this, if it’s so rampant where is the hard evidence? He said she said isn’t all that convincing coming from fired employees

From the article:

"Tesla's treatment of Black employees was previously highlighted in a federal lawsuit filed by former employee Owen Diaz, who was awarded $137 million by a jury. After the jury trial, a federal judge rejected Tesla's claim that it is not liable for the "disturbing" racist abuse Diaz suffered but reduced the award to $15 million."

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#22

Post by comorbidlyobese »

la64710 wrote: post #11

Well what is truly Musk’s attitude towards racial equality? Unfortunately his behavior or silence is only feeding rumors around that.

This article is about the company's practices, not its CEO's personal feelings on the matter.

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#23

Post by seanhunter »

natch wrote: post #15
_8j50 wrote: post #13

There are multiple lawsuits where Tesla has had similar accusations and the judgement trend has been consistently against their favor. I see a similar trend with Facebook and the like but for different accusations in the EU and elsewhere. These fines are not enough. When awarding them, the company's stock value and net profits should be taken into consideration and inaction or lack of change after the lawsuit should…

We should at least consider the possibility this is just a bunch of lowlifes trying to cash in with lawsuits on stuff that is sadly routine in many blue collar work settings. Since it's Tesla, it garners headlines, and that helps with the lawsuits. Lawsuits at other blue collar workplaces are boring, so they don't make headlines, don't threaten the companies involved, and go nowhere. It seems Tesla is being targeted…

> We should at least consider the possibility this is just a bunch of lowlifes trying to cash in with lawsuits on stuff that is sadly routine in many blue collar work settings.

If it's "sadly routine" and also unlawful then the people are not "cashing in" but are using the legal system to enforce their rights and ensure that companies are held to account for unlawful conduct. Saying that Tesla doesn't have an especially outsized problem is entirely beside the point. It's not a valid defense to say "sure my activities were unlawful but they weren't much more unlawful than other people - you're just picking on me because I'm high profile."

I don't know whether or not what they did was in fact unlawful, but deciding that is the whole point of the lawsuit.

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#26

Post by bergenty »

la64710 wrote: post #11

Well what is truly Musk’s attitude towards racial equality? Unfortunately his behavior or silence is only feeding rumors around that.

I don’t get the feel that he’s racist. Maybe light frat boy levels of racism where there’s no animosity but some judgement.

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#27

Post by thebradbain »

natch wrote: post #15
_8j50 wrote: post #13

There are multiple lawsuits where Tesla has had similar accusations and the judgement trend has been consistently against their favor. I see a similar trend with Facebook and the like but for different accusations in the EU and elsewhere. These fines are not enough. When awarding them, the company's stock value and net profits should be taken into consideration and inaction or lack of change after the lawsuit should…

We should at least consider the possibility this is just a bunch of lowlifes trying to cash in with lawsuits on stuff that is sadly routine in many blue collar work settings. Since it's Tesla, it garners headlines, and that helps with the lawsuits. Lawsuits at other blue collar workplaces are boring, so they don't make headlines, don't threaten the companies involved, and go nowhere. It seems Tesla is being targeted…

> Yes the underlying (if true) behavior is bad too.

Not just bad, but illegal.

If Tesla is losing court cases — which they are — then that’s because the judge and jury believe based on the evidence presented and argued that Tesla, as a company, was at fault.

If it’s happened, they SHOULD be sued. No ifs ands or buts about it.

> We should at least consider the possibility this is just a bunch of lowlifes trying to cash in with lawsuits

No, we don’t need to consider that possibility. Judges and juries, who have actually seen the evidence (moreso than you or me), have repeatedly considered that possibility and repudiated it.

Keep in mind Tesla has some of the absolute best legal representation money and reputation can buy. If the claimants’ stories had any exploitable openings for doubt, Tesla’s lawyers would have absolutely (and skillfully) used them to deflect culpability. The fact they are still losing says something.

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#28

Post by yieldcrv »

> His supervisor, identified as defendant Clinton Doe, "repeatedly made racially discriminatory comments to Gonsalves, stating that Gonsalves 'wasn't like most black people,' that he 'didn't act ghetto,' and further called him a 'zebra' because he was 'neither black nor white.'"

this is inspirational as I never thought about sanctioning these kind of derogatory comments, new business model! will be watching how this one goes.

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#29

Post by extheat »

natch wrote: post #15
_8j50 wrote: post #13

There are multiple lawsuits where Tesla has had similar accusations and the judgement trend has been consistently against their favor. I see a similar trend with Facebook and the like but for different accusations in the EU and elsewhere. These fines are not enough. When awarding them, the company's stock value and net profits should be taken into consideration and inaction or lack of change after the lawsuit should…

We should at least consider the possibility this is just a bunch of lowlifes trying to cash in with lawsuits on stuff that is sadly routine in many blue collar work settings. Since it's Tesla, it garners headlines, and that helps with the lawsuits. Lawsuits at other blue collar workplaces are boring, so they don't make headlines, don't threaten the companies involved, and go nowhere. It seems Tesla is being targeted…

Indeed, and definately some bandwagoning involved. If one group gets an outsized settlement, then others are inspired to do dirt digging to do the same. Alleging pervasive racism is a tall order, and the evidence presented thus far amounts to he-said-she-said and between workers and some supervisors as far as we're aware of and not some leadership thing to go as far to say "standard operating procedure".

Re: Lawsuit: At Tesla, racial discrimination is “standard operating procedure”

#30

Post by extheat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #7
mountainriver wrote: post #3

I would love to see proof of this, if it’s so rampant where is the hard evidence? He said she said isn’t all that convincing coming from fired employees

The proof of this is that even Tesla's own PR after both the individual racial discrimination jury trial it lost and the large racial discrimination action filed by the California DFEH has focussed on how the former was about 2015-2016 and the latter 2015-2019 and claiming it had gotten better and faced no current accusations.

The standard for civil cases is low compared to a criminal trial where someone has to present a case of intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Suggesting that there's orders from the company top to engage in racism is absurd and requires evidence. So far, as far as we are aware, it's a game of he-said-she-said between employees/supervisors. Tesla cannot blanket deny that the harassment didn't happen, but they can deny giving any such instruction to promote it. The court determined that regardless of the employees ultimately responsible for the harassment, Tesla was on the hook for paying them for the behavior. "Not doing enough" is a completely subjective measure.
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