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Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

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Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#21

Post by junofan »

suzzer99 wrote: post #8
datalopers wrote: post #7

The crypto market is crashing for the same reason real financial markets are crashing. The problems with Celsius are an irrelevant blip.

Except the real financial markets have a bottom where contrarian investors will step in and stop the free fall. What tangible value is there for a contrarian investor in crypto?

Under proof-of-stake, if I control some fraction of the network, perhaps statistically I’ll occasionally be able to profit from doing things the network designers didn’t think of. So I’d want to buy during a sell-off to maximize my profits.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#22

Post by CTDOCodebases »

datalopers wrote: post #7

The crypto market is crashing for the same reason real financial markets are crashing. The problems with Celsius are an irrelevant blip.

The problem or benefit of crypto land though is there are no bailouts so the insolvencies will be contagious.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#23

Post by Taniwha »

Deritio wrote: post #11

Oh boy oh boy that thread had lots of ETH and sETH and oETH und BTC and what not. No wonder that it's hard for some people to see the Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and what else those things are called. Regulations anyone? Or do we now just see people loosing their money?

it was never really 'money', or even 'theirs' - just a consensual delusion that's falling apart

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#24

Post by dehrmann »

Deritio wrote: post #11

Oh boy oh boy that thread had lots of ETH and sETH and oETH und BTC and what not. No wonder that it's hard for some people to see the Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and what else those things are called. Regulations anyone? Or do we now just see people loosing their money?

> No wonder that it's hard for some people to see the Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and what else those things are called.

On the other hand, it's quite easy. After the third flavor of ETH and nested contracts, I thought to myself "fuck, that's complicated." Then just follow Buffett's advice of not investing in things you don't understand.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#25

Post by silisili »

Does anyone have any inkling about Voyager? I only ask because when I was looking into it last year, seemed everyone said 'use Celsius or Voyager', so I assume they are somewhat similar. I used Voyager to get 9% APY on USDC just to test it, but chickened out and withdrew it all because I basically envisioned something like this happening.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#26

Post by pas »

silisili wrote: post #25

Does anyone have any inkling about Voyager? I only ask because when I was looking into it last year, seemed everyone said 'use Celsius or Voyager', so I assume they are somewhat similar. I used Voyager to get 9% APY on USDC just to test it, but chickened out and withdrew it all because I basically envisioned something like this happening.

what was the the business model of these platforms? did they lend out the staked money, or how did they generate these yields?

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#27

Post by silisili »

pas wrote: post #26
silisili wrote: post #25

Does anyone have any inkling about Voyager? I only ask because when I was looking into it last year, seemed everyone said 'use Celsius or Voyager', so I assume they are somewhat similar. I used Voyager to get 9% APY on USDC just to test it, but chickened out and withdrew it all because I basically envisioned something like this happening.

what was the the business model of these platforms? did they lend out the staked money, or how did they generate these yields?

I have zero idea. I did get the correct APY for one month before withdrawing, paid no fee, and was left with the same question.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#28

Post by pas »

trhway wrote: post #12

Who said doublespent is impossible? Innovating your way out of such a limitation : "$stETH is a product by @LidoFinance. It stands for (liquid) staked $ETH and it's one of the most innovative DeFi products to be released in the last few years. $stETH can also be used to earn MORE yield than otherwise possible with vanilla $ETH. Why? Because while $stETH already earns staking yield, it can also be lent out or liquidit…

it's the derivative bubble all again

or more precisely

using collateral that's already beind used for collateral for something else.

see also rehypothecation

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#29

Post by ALittleLight »

Taniwha wrote: post #23
Deritio wrote: post #11

Oh boy oh boy that thread had lots of ETH and sETH and oETH und BTC and what not. No wonder that it's hard for some people to see the Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and what else those things are called. Regulations anyone? Or do we now just see people loosing their money?

it was never really 'money', or even 'theirs' - just a consensual delusion that's falling apart

Well, at some level people paid fiat to get in and they are losing that.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#30

Post by tyrfing »

pas wrote: post #26
silisili wrote: post #25

Does anyone have any inkling about Voyager? I only ask because when I was looking into it last year, seemed everyone said 'use Celsius or Voyager', so I assume they are somewhat similar. I used Voyager to get 9% APY on USDC just to test it, but chickened out and withdrew it all because I basically envisioned something like this happening.

what was the the business model of these platforms? did they lend out the staked money, or how did they generate these yields?

Step 1: get lots of venture capital (860 million)

Step 2: give away money

Step 3: somehow start making money

Like most companies you'll see on HN, they are currently on step 2.

The discerning reader may note that this sounds like a terrible use for $860 million - and if that's the case, how much of the other $642 billion last year was properly allocated?

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