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User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

thomaspark.me

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Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#21

Post by brudgers »

barrkel wrote: post #13
brudgers wrote: post #11

> "It seems that essentially, every single command that customers have used or requested has been moved into a ribbon or wedged into some corner of the chrome. And many are rightfully lambasting it." Being surprised by Microsoft employing the ribbon and persistent UI elements in a redesign of any software product is nothing short utter cluelessness. The story of the ribbon: [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9kD693ie…

I followed Jensen's blog postings all throughout the development of the ribbon; but it's all highly unconvincing to me, because it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software . Menus work for me because they are lists of text; when I'm looking for a command, a list of text is exactly what I want. If it's a command that I use often, it doesn't belong in a menu - for that, something like a ribbon might b…

>"but it's all highly unconvincing to me, it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software"

The same argument could have been made about GUI's v command lines or command lines v punch cards.

Any new UI architecture will be fundamentally at odds with how you interact with software.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#22

Post by redthrowaway »

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #8

The article assumes that Microsoft's goal is to empower and delight the user. This isn't really the case; their goal is to reduce support costs for corporate IT departments. Many of Microsoft's strategies and tactics that seem nonsensical seem more sensible once you realize that corporate IT managers, rather than end users, are their customers.

I think that's a bit of a facile assumption. Sure, Enterprise is huge for Microsoft. But so is the consumer space. The vast majority of new computers sold are still Windows boxen, and at $250 a pop home users are still a massive market for Microsoft. Sure, many or their choices since the NT integration with XP have been driven by Enterprise needs, but not at the expense of home users.

I'm far more ready to believe that they simply messed up than that they are willing to make huge usability and design sacrifices just to appease IT managers.

Also, remember that we are probably the least important people to Microsoft. I'd say less than half of us run Windows on our personal machines. Our design sensibilities don't matter to them; they're designing for our mothers and technophobic friends. In a word (3), the facebook crowd. We use keyboard shortcuts, they consider having to right-click to be a burden and a skill that needs to be learned. We compare the relative benefits of various anti-malware tools, they renew their subscription of Norton that came with their computer three years ago. We lament the general craptitude of cmd.exe, they would be scared if they ever saw it. We talk about the inferiority of snap-to-grid fonts versus anti-aliasing, and they wouldn't know what kerning was if it bit them in the ass.

Windows is not designed for the tech and design crowd, so while we might think of the ribbon as a design travesty, the people it's designed for are the ones who have three toolbars strewn across the top of ie6.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#23

Post by [deleted] »

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #8

The article assumes that Microsoft's goal is to empower and delight the user. This isn't really the case; their goal is to reduce support costs for corporate IT departments. Many of Microsoft's strategies and tactics that seem nonsensical seem more sensible once you realize that corporate IT managers, rather than end users, are their customers.

[deleted]

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#24

Post by crazygringo »

barrkel wrote: post #16
yaksha wrote: post #7

I don't understand the complaint. The new interface clearly presents what options/actions are available with text names and pictures. Compared to hunting through various menus with only an action's name to determine what something does, this seems an improvment. I would agree that the Ribbon looks visually busy, but isn't it easier to scan through the Ribbon than search through multiple menus to locate an action, or…

No, it's easier to scan menus, because they are left-aligned lists of text. Ribbons have tiles of various sizes depending on measured importance of the action, and that busyness makes it harder to scan. The lower screenshot looks like someone visually puked all over the top of it. It's got knobs and gizmos hanging out like a big mess of wires, something you'd expect to see in a stereotypical movie genius's garage, no…

and that busyness makes it harder to scan.

I couldn't agree more. No idea why you're being downvoted, you make excellent points.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#25

Post by jeffreymcmanus »

redthrowaway wrote: post #22
jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #8

The article assumes that Microsoft's goal is to empower and delight the user. This isn't really the case; their goal is to reduce support costs for corporate IT departments. Many of Microsoft's strategies and tactics that seem nonsensical seem more sensible once you realize that corporate IT managers, rather than end users, are their customers.

I think that's a bit of a facile assumption. Sure, Enterprise is huge for Microsoft. But so is the consumer space . The vast majority of new computers sold are still Windows boxen, and at $250 a pop home users are still a massive market for Microsoft. Sure, many or their choices since the NT integration with XP have been driven by Enterprise needs, but not at the expense of home users. I'm far more ready to believe t…

Let's just say that my analysis is not uninformed. There are countless examples of how Microsoft puts IT managers' needs first -- if this were not the case, IE6 would have been stricken from the face of the earth five years ago.

You're also quite mistaken to think that Microsoft (who, you'll recall, is still run by Steve "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS" Ballmer), doesn't care about what nerds think. It's no accident that they have a whole division to sell tools and technologies to developers that's separate from their cash cow operating system and productivity divisions.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#26

Post by redthrowaway »

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #25
redthrowaway wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bit of a facile assumption. Sure, Enterprise is huge for Microsoft. But so is the consumer space . The vast majority of new computers sold are still Windows boxen, and at $250 a pop home users are still a massive market for Microsoft. Sure, many or their choices since the NT integration with XP have been driven by Enterprise needs, but not at the expense of home users. I'm far more ready to believe t…

Let's just say that my analysis is not uninformed. There are countless examples of how Microsoft puts IT managers' needs first -- if this were not the case, IE6 would have been stricken from the face of the earth five years ago. You're also quite mistaken to think that Microsoft (who, you'll recall, is still run by Steve "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS" Ballmer), doesn't care about what nerds think. It's no accid…

>You're also quite mistaken to think that Microsoft ... doesn't care about what nerds think.

We aren't the target market for Windows. Yes, Microsoft wants to get more developers on .NET making Windows apps, and to the extent that it needs them to use Windows they'll make it at least usable for that purpose, but they aren't about to make Windows harder to use for your grandma just to court us. We prefer keyboard shortcuts (which they have) to messy buttons all over the place, but if buttons make the product more usable for their core market then that's what they'll do.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#27

Post by Derbasti »

I think the point of the ribbon is to get rid of rightclick menus and the menu bar. This is certainly a requirement for making a touch-first UI.

That said, it will necessarily make mouse based interaction more clunky. But they are committed to touch first, so this is not negotiable.

My issue with the new explorer UI is more specifically about the choices they made within the ribbon. Why put something that provably is never used in there at all? Why not put context-aware stuff in a context aware tab like the image tab in Word (only visiblw when an image is selectad)?

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#28

Post by btn »

Derbasti wrote: post #27

I think the point of the ribbon is to get rid of rightclick menus and the menu bar. This is certainly a requirement for making a touch-first UI. That said, it will necessarily make mouse based interaction more clunky. But they are committed to touch first, so this is not negotiable. My issue with the new explorer UI is more specifically about the choices they made within the ribbon. Why put something that provably is…

Why put something that provably is never used in there at all?

It's important not to confuse "never used because it's useless" and "never used because nobody knows about it".

Of the items in the Windows 8 "Home" tab that fewer than 84% of people use, half of them appear to be new features and half are features that exist in Windows 7 but don't appear in the toolbar or any context-menu, have no keyboard shortcut, and aren't documented in the help files. People who used these features in XP could be forgiven for thinking Microsoft removed them in Vista.

Why not put context-aware stuff in a context aware tab like the image tab in Word

They do. In their blog post they have examples of context-sensitive tabs for libraries, drives, and images.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#29

Post by barrkel »

brudgers wrote: post #21
barrkel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I followed Jensen's blog postings all throughout the development of the ribbon; but it's all highly unconvincing to me, because it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software . Menus work for me because they are lists of text; when I'm looking for a command, a list of text is exactly what I want. If it's a command that I use often, it doesn't belong in a menu - for that, something like a ribbon might b…

> "but it's all highly unconvincing to me, it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software" The same argument could have been made about GUI's v command lines or command lines v punch cards. Any new UI architecture will be fundamentally at odds with how you interact with software.

Sure, any new UI modality will be at odds. But for mouse-oriented UI, I haven't seen anything better for a situation where you have many, yet infrequent, commands. A search interface seems like it could work well, but you'd have to know (a) that the software supported the command you're looking for, and (b) what aliases the software supported for that command. The Windows start menu search kinda works, most of the time; but that's because you generally know whether or not you have a particular piece of software installed. But when you don't know 100% if the software actually has the feature, and you're looking for it...

So in the absence of an effective search, it seems clear that a list of commands, grouped into categories, is best for finding infrequent functionality - particularly when a mouse is the modality.

One thing I am absolutely certain of: searching for a command in a ribbon is harder than searching a menu. I've had opportunity to do both in unfamiliar UIs, and searching ribbons is definitely harder.

Re: User Research Gone Astray: The Case of Windows 8 Explorer

#30

Post by Gormo »

brudgers wrote: post #21
barrkel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I followed Jensen's blog postings all throughout the development of the ribbon; but it's all highly unconvincing to me, because it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software . Menus work for me because they are lists of text; when I'm looking for a command, a list of text is exactly what I want. If it's a command that I use often, it doesn't belong in a menu - for that, something like a ribbon might b…

> "but it's all highly unconvincing to me, it fundamentally is at odds with how I interact with software" The same argument could have been made about GUI's v command lines or command lines v punch cards. Any new UI architecture will be fundamentally at odds with how you interact with software.

I'm not sure the comparison is quite the same. The key difference is that with a CLI or punch card interface, you need to know the command syntax in advance - it can't be discovered by interacting with the system. With a GUI, you can discover the appropriate commands to make the application do what you wanted to do.

The menus vs. ribbons debate essentially boils down to one of aesthetics. But I'll personally agree with barrkel in finding it much easier to locate the function I need by browsing through one-dimensional lists of text than by browsing through two-dimensional grids of pictures (of varying sizes and shapes).

The Ribbon may make locating a small set of basic features slightly easier for inexperienced users, but it makes far more difficult for everyone else to work with more complex functions - the very thing for which software adds the most value.

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