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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

npr.org

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#21

Post by jancsika »

compiler-guy wrote: post #6

A large component here is simply risk tolerance. Society's risk tolerance, especially for kids, has fallen pretty dramatically. This is probably related to just how many fewer kids US society has in general (births per woman has fallen in half since 1960, and it takes a culture some time to catch up). If you have fewer, then the individual ones become that much more valuable. Your attention and time is divided much l…

> A large component here is simply risk tolerance.

Cheap, hand-held TVs delivering custom-tailored traumatic word-salad clickbait videos to kids would have created so much paranoia among suburban moms in the 80s they would have forgotten to be terrified about crack/cocaine.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#22

Post by function_seven »

robonerd wrote: post #8

By all means, let the kid run around town and have fun. I think most of us realize that by the numbers, 'stranger danger' precaution went too far years ago. But errands? They'll have a lifetime of errands when they're older; four years is too young, let them have at least a few years of fun first. Maybe the occasional errand is fun for kids, but I think I know how this ends. Before long it's no longer an adventure an…

The difference between "the occasional errand is fun for kids" and "becomes a chore, an obligation" cannot be emphasized enough!

I vividly remember watching my dad mow the front lawn one afternoon. I was 11 I think? It looked so fun pushing this loud machine over the messy grass and leaving a path of perfectly neat turf behind.

I asked him if I could try it out. He hesitated for a bit, then said, "Sure." So I did, and it was fun.

And it was now my obligation once a week for the next 8 years.

The fun was short-lived, but the chore remained. And the mechanism was identical to how I assumed vacuuming duty at the age of 8, which means I didn't learn my lesson from that fiasco either :)

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#23

Post by tetris11 »

a3w wrote: post #10

https://text.npr.org/1093153651 Link that actually loads in the EU. Also, as a german citizen: isn't that public knowledge? When seven years old I walked to my school and visited neighbors afterwards without telling anyone where I was going, as long as that I was not delayed too much. (When 27 years old and moving back in with my parents, that actually changed, but after a few years I trained them to let me live my o…

The difference is that you likely grew up in a strong permanent community, where your neighbours weren't constantly moving in/out.

In Mediterranean cultures its completely normal for kids to stay up late playing with their friends and staying over at each others houses without any parental coordination required at all.

When you have a strong community, trust is more easily built.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#25

Post by earthboundkid »

chomp wrote: post #14
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "Stranger Danger" panic that accelerated in the 80's is probably more responsible for people thinking that a 4-year old is incapable of running errands. It's not so much the lack of mental capacity as it is decades of cultural inculcation that you should not dare to let any child under the age of ___ wander the streets alone, or they will be immediately abducted, assaulted, and decapitated by dark forces.…

Well, and now the Internet - it doesn't help when Nextdoor is full of "suspicious person alerts" aka "there was a solicitor and I didn't like it", and a non-stop barrage of crime related stories. I live in a city whose broader region is almost 10000 square miles, and the crime feeds report all crime in this area as occurring in "Houston", even though this region is larger than some US states. I feel like this contrib…

Nextdoor is very revealing. I had no idea how racist my neighbors were until I read the Nextdoor post about a suspicious cherrypicker truck driver in the neighborhood, who suspiciously claimed to work for the power company.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#26

Post by gregjor »

johnzim wrote: post #20

As a parent, none of the risks are as profound as that of some other member of the public calling the police to inform on your “dangerous parenting”. I’ve deliberately chosen to live in a walkable part of the Bay Area in the hopes that my kids can be more independent when they get older, but I’m more worried about the social pushback than I am about their safety.

I let my three kids walk to school, the park, around the corner to friend’s houses. Neighbors complained to my face multiple times, and threatened to call CPS twice. My children all survived to adulthood.

I was walking to school with other kids when I was four, no one had a problem with it then. Teaching kids to fear everyone and the world they live in doesn’t do them any good — it just causes anxiety.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#27

Post by sloreti »

Disappointing that an article like this wouldn’t mention one of the main reasons children are given less autonomy in the US: our built environment. The vast majority of our children grow up in neighborhoods in which one can’t easily be a pedestrian at any age. Low density communities, in which almost all trips have to be taken in cars, are of course not friendly to non-drivers.

Japan builds dense, mixed use neighborhoods. As a result, children are empowered to walk to the store or a friend’s house.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#28

Post by flakiness »

compiler-guy wrote: post #6

A large component here is simply risk tolerance. Society's risk tolerance, especially for kids, has fallen pretty dramatically. This is probably related to just how many fewer kids US society has in general (births per woman has fallen in half since 1960, and it takes a culture some time to catch up). If you have fewer, then the individual ones become that much more valuable. Your attention and time is divided much l…

It's also about some collective trust/fantasy, in addition to the tolerance.

For example, I don't think Tokyo is particularly safer than a (walkable) US city. But since people there collectively believe Japan is a safe country and are proud of it, they let their child go out.

But I agree that the risk tolerance points too. I have talked to a handful of Japanese parents and none of them let their small kids go out without the supervision anymore. So the lower risk tolerance isn't a US-only problem. I guess it's a symptom of modernized society in general (although would love to be proven wrong.)

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#29

Post by robonerd »

function_seven wrote: post #22
robonerd wrote: post #8

By all means, let the kid run around town and have fun. I think most of us realize that by the numbers, 'stranger danger' precaution went too far years ago. But errands? They'll have a lifetime of errands when they're older; four years is too young, let them have at least a few years of fun first. Maybe the occasional errand is fun for kids, but I think I know how this ends. Before long it's no longer an adventure an…

The difference between "the occasional errand is fun for kids" and "becomes a chore, an obligation" cannot be emphasized enough! I vividly remember watching my dad mow the front lawn one afternoon. I was 11 I think? It looked so fun pushing this loud machine over the messy grass and leaving a path of perfectly neat turf behind. I asked him if I could try it out. He hesitated for a bit, then said, "Sure." So I did, an…

For me, the first of these adventures-turned-chores was washing the car. It was great fun in the summer; we didn't have air conditioning then so any excuse to go outside and spray the hose was great as far as I was concerned. But before too long that chore extended into the fall and spring when it was chilly and not remotely fun. It only ended when I was 16 and had the idea to drive the car to the local carwash instead.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#30

Post by yu-carm-kror »

sloreti wrote: post #27

Disappointing that an article like this wouldn’t mention one of the main reasons children are given less autonomy in the US: our built environment. The vast majority of our children grow up in neighborhoods in which one can’t easily be a pedestrian at any age. Low density communities, in which almost all trips have to be taken in cars, are of course not friendly to non-drivers. Japan builds dense, mixed use neighborh…

Agreed. I sometimes feel tense crossing big box parking lots where mostly no space has been designated to walking. Imagine a small person surrounded by pickup trucks and SUV’s from which they’re completely invisible.
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