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London riots / UK riots: verified areas

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Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#21

Post by pbhjpbhj »

abcd_f wrote: post #15
LoonyPandora wrote: post #11

I'm a Londoner near some of the affected areas. The sky is not falling, London is not degenerating into lawlessness, and from what I can see from my flat window, police are responding quickly. Other areas may be different, but London is a very large city - commenters should remember that in discussions.

So what was the trigger that started the riots?

It appears a known criminal (gangs, drug-dealing) with a loaded handgun was shot by police while resisting arrest; he may or may not have shot a police officer [first] at the time of his arrest ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-cruc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile...

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#22

Post by LoonyPandora »

LoonyPandora wrote: post #11

I'm a Londoner near some of the affected areas. The sky is not falling, London is not degenerating into lawlessness, and from what I can see from my flat window, police are responding quickly. Other areas may be different, but London is a very large city - commenters should remember that in discussions.

I don't want to turn this into a rumour thread, the news sites can keep people up to date.

I just want people to keep in mind that the news will be sensationalist, and not to think that the entire city is in flames.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#23

Post by abcd_f »

mcrider wrote: post #19
LoonyPandora wrote: post #11

I'm a Londoner near some of the affected areas. The sky is not falling, London is not degenerating into lawlessness, and from what I can see from my flat window, police are responding quickly. Other areas may be different, but London is a very large city - commenters should remember that in discussions.

That's even scarier. When we had our (ridiculous) riots here in Vancouver a couple months back, it was all in one area. Many will argue that the cops didn't do a great job keeping it under control, but at least they kept everything in a relatively small zone away from residential areas, and it petered out over the night. Doesn't the fact that they're springing up all over London point to there being a systemic proble…

London is a much larger city with what seems like a lower quality of life for many people. Basically the number of potential rioteers in London is way higher than in Vancouver, so it is logical that their riots will be stronger and longer when they do spark.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#24

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ColinWright wrote: post #17
abcd_f wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was the trigger that started the riots?

Originally there was a peaceful protest over the shooting of a young man during a police operation. that seems to have been hijacked by mobs intent purely on violence. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 The initial areas are fairly poor and have a history of tension with the police, but the disturbances tonight seem simply to be youths intent on causing damage and looting. I'm not in London, these a…

The mobs bent purely on violence were probably this guys friends based on the reported gang links of the guy that was shot.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#25

Post by __rkaup__ »

Mz wrote: post #12
hugh3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you disagree, counter-argue, don't downvote.

I'm deeply in debt and being sued by my creditors. I am deeply in debt because I and my oldest son have a genetic disorder and I figured out how to get us well when the entire world says it cannot be done. Since the entire world frames the problem the way it does, there would be financial support for keeping me and my son ill and lifelong legal drug addicts. There is no financial support for things that actually work…

And now since that comment is dead, I have no idea what you were arguing against. I suppose from the response it's not worth worrying about, but it does sort of irritate me.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#27

Post by Mz »

__rkaup__ wrote: post #25
Mz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deeply in debt and being sued by my creditors. I am deeply in debt because I and my oldest son have a genetic disorder and I figured out how to get us well when the entire world says it cannot be done. Since the entire world frames the problem the way it does, there would be financial support for keeping me and my son ill and lifelong legal drug addicts. There is no financial support for things that actually work…

And now since that comment is dead, I have no idea what you were arguing against. I suppose from the response it's not worth worrying about, but it does sort of irritate me.

The OP basically suggested all poor people be put to death. I don't recall the exact wording, but the assumption/implication was that poor people are incapable/incompetent and have nothing to contribute to society.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#28

Post by Fargren »

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#29

Post by estel »

Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

It's long since become little more than hooliganism. I'm sure a variety a deeper societal-reasons will be dredged up in the weeks and months to come; but what started off as a sit-in on Saturday is now just a backdrop for a large number of disaffected people, mainly youths, to smash shops and steal.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#30

Post by itg »

Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

Started off as a protest against a police shooting (details will depend on which side you ask) and then escalated. Now it is just vandalizing, destroying property, and looting. Some BBC commenters were saying that for the young guys, the austerity measures with a combination of feeling marginalized, unemployed, and no hope for a future plays a part in this too.
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