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Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

nzherald.co.nz

21–30 of 38 posts

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The objection is that people should be able to voluntarily interact in any way they see fit. If they want to work lots of hours then there is nothing wrong with this. This is very different than being shot, which is a violation of someones rights.

A couple points. First, some of the labour laws that I've seen actually _explicitly_ forbid such agreements because they are afraid it'll lead to abuse...kinda like "agree to work a 20 hour shift or you're fired." The strictest I've seen for this is around minimum wage and minimum vacation time. Simply, there are some rights you can't give away because it would too easily lead to people taking them away. Secondly, sl…

That's the problem - you see the employer as a bad guy taking away someone's sleep, but the employee has a choice no?

Are you going to argue next that having a job, with perfect hours and perfect pay, is also a right?

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#22
post #20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I'm not sure where you live, but the vaste majority of countries/states/territories/whatever have laws that protect employees with respect to working hours. Your remark is so odd to me, I feel like I either completely misunderstood it or you live in a very sad place. edit: What you are saying to me sounds like "It's odd that you called the police because someone shot you; I really don't see how this could be re…

Comparing this to getting shot is a little dramatic don't you think? Again, I'll go to my original point, which is that if you don't like the hours your employer has asked you to work in exchange for the salary that they are paying, then find a new job. I see no need for regulation here, especially in our industry, where there are more jobs than people.

Some people have decided to live in a society where employees typically don't work consistently at the border between having a job and quitting.

If you do prefer a society where employers are not regulated at all, there probably are places in the world you can "choose" to live.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#23
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple points. First, some of the labour laws that I've seen actually _explicitly_ forbid such agreements because they are afraid it'll lead to abuse...kinda like "agree to work a 20 hour shift or you're fired." The strictest I've seen for this is around minimum wage and minimum vacation time. Simply, there are some rights you can't give away because it would too easily lead to people taking them away. Secondly, sl…

That's the problem - you see the employer as a bad guy taking away someone's sleep, but the employee has a choice no? Are you going to argue next that having a job, with perfect hours and perfect pay, is also a right?

AFAIK in the western world this sort of "freedom" is only available in the USA (if at all, I am not that familiar with the laws over there).

In Austria it is illegal[1] not to offer compensation for working overtime, and I'll bet it is the same in NZ as well.

[1] http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#24
Sadly, this is pretty much Japan in a nutshell. People don't complain either. It wrecks your productivity, health, and family. Also does nothing for the economy. The funny thing about the threat of power outages after the earthquake is that suddenly people are trying to find ways to work shorter hours and be more productive for God and country.

Unreasonable hours create a downward spiral. Walking away is an option but fighting back takes courage. Either way the company ends up the biggest loser over time as the best leave for greener pastures.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing this to getting shot is a little dramatic don't you think? Again, I'll go to my original point, which is that if you don't like the hours your employer has asked you to work in exchange for the salary that they are paying, then find a new job. I see no need for regulation here, especially in our industry, where there are more jobs than people.

Some people have decided to live in a society where employees typically don't work consistently at the border between having a job and quitting. If you do prefer a society where employers are not regulated at all, there probably are places in the world you can "choose" to live.

I choose to live in the US, and again, this is not a problem if you choose your job properly.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#26
post #24

Sadly, this is pretty much Japan in a nutshell. People don't complain either. It wrecks your productivity, health, and family. Also does nothing for the economy. The funny thing about the threat of power outages after the earthquake is that suddenly people are trying to find ways to work shorter hours and be more productive for God and country. Unreasonable hours create a downward spiral. Walking away is an option bu…

Japanese salaryman "overtime" is very strange.

In my experience, employees are not doing more work, they are at the office trying to look busy until the boss goes home. Sometimes the boss is sleeping at his desk, and people are sitting around looking at blank documents on the screen.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#27
post #26
post #24

Sadly, this is pretty much Japan in a nutshell. People don't complain either. It wrecks your productivity, health, and family. Also does nothing for the economy. The funny thing about the threat of power outages after the earthquake is that suddenly people are trying to find ways to work shorter hours and be more productive for God and country. Unreasonable hours create a downward spiral. Walking away is an option bu…

Japanese salaryman "overtime" is very strange. In my experience, employees are not doing more work, they are at the office trying to look busy until the boss goes home. Sometimes the boss is sleeping at his desk, and people are sitting around looking at blank documents on the screen.

The boss is usually avoiding the train wreck that is his family life. It used to be that ever so often they would get off early, around 8PM, so they could go drinking to hang out some more until the last trains. Not so much with the younger generation. These business practices give new meaning to "Japanese miracle".

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#28
post #18
post #2

> A Gameloft employee, who asked not to be named, said a clause in their contracts allowed for a "reasonable amount" of unpaid overtime. why is that kind of language allowed at all in contracts?

Why does a contract ever provide for unpaid overtime? Surely overtime is necessary once in a while to match a deadline. However, having a modest premium on it is an easy way of ensuring the amount of the overtime will remain reasonable .

It can be compensated differently. For example, it's pretty standard in Sweden to have 6 weeks of vacation (instead of the usual 5) in exchange for reasonable unpaid overtime.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#29
post #24

Sadly, this is pretty much Japan in a nutshell. People don't complain either. It wrecks your productivity, health, and family. Also does nothing for the economy. The funny thing about the threat of power outages after the earthquake is that suddenly people are trying to find ways to work shorter hours and be more productive for God and country. Unreasonable hours create a downward spiral. Walking away is an option bu…

People don't complain either.

I think you can put an asterix on this one. People don't complain about long hours in Japanese megacorps for the same reason they don't complain about them in game development studios: if you care enough to complain, you're at nearly zero risk of ending up with that job. Nobody becomes seishain at a Japanese megacorp and then suddenly gets surprised about the working conditions. I went into it with eyes wide open, too. (Although I really underestimated how much that would impact my happiness.)

The folks who would most dislike 17 hour days or 70 hour weeks communicate their displeasure by opting out of the system entirely. (Or, if they're young ladies, by going the pink collar route and quitting at 25 when they get married or 27 when their first child is born.) There is an oft-reported thing for Japanese young men of my generation to take to, basically, grifting (odd jobs, part time employment, mooching off parents, etc) as opposed to doing the salaryman thing, because the salaryman thing sucks so badly. It is probably exaggerated because it sells newspapers, but I'll bet there is a kernel or two of truth in it (c.f. "metrosexuals", "sexting", etc)

Similarly, if you look around my social circle of Japanese techy friends, you'll see a bunch of societal rejects. Not because they're geeky anime nerds, although a few are. They just saw the handwriting on the wall and said "Meh, not for me." So we've got freelancers, folks ensconced in various academic posts, weird government sinecures for techno-artists, a raft of quirky startups, permanent students, etc etc. (I'm not exactly Grade A Salaryman Role Model Material myself anymore, either, even for a white guy.)

That said: any viable alternative to this system, whether for Japan or the video game industry or Silicon Valley or anywhere else its evil takes root, is a victory for all that is good and just in the world.

Re: Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland

#30
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's wrong to go public, but going to the department of labor seems backwards. I'm not familiar with the laws there, but I don't see how this could be regulated outside of a collectively bargained union contract? Edit: I'd like to see a response behind these downvotes. As a business owner and employee, I'm confused.

What? I'm not sure where you live, but the vaste majority of countries/states/territories/whatever have laws that protect employees with respect to working hours. Your remark is so odd to me, I feel like I either completely misunderstood it or you live in a very sad place. edit: What you are saying to me sounds like "It's odd that you called the police because someone shot you; I really don't see how this could be re…

Well, the laws protect some employees at the expense of others. Specifically, they protect employees who prefer time to money while harming employees who prefer money over time.

It's just protectionism - some people can't compete and use the government to hobble the competition.

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