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When Orcs Were Real

treeofwoe.substack.com

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Re: When Orcs Were Real

#21

Post by fogihujy »

akomtu wrote: post #11
fogihujy wrote: post #4

I'm not sure about the descriptions of Neanderthals presented in this article, but the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched.

Pretty much all our mythology and fairy tales, including the Tolkien's world, Harry Potter and many movies are based on what I'd call the "occult records". Those records were made partially public at least two centuries before Tolkien was born, so it can't be a coincidence that so many elements of his world match 1:1 with those records. Whether those records are true is a separate question. Using occult chronology, T…

There's definitely a lot of more modern developments as well, but there's also stories like Jack and the Beanstalk, that can be traced back thousands of years and which has themes similar to those described in the article.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#22

Post by JackFr »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #8
fogihujy wrote: post #4

I'm not sure about the descriptions of Neanderthals presented in this article, but the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched.

I always though that dragons were also sourced from a vague genetic memory passed down from very remote ancestors that met dino descendants.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flight_of_Dragons_(book)

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#23

Post by Bayart »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #8
fogihujy wrote: post #4

I'm not sure about the descriptions of Neanderthals presented in this article, but the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched.

I always though that dragons were also sourced from a vague genetic memory passed down from very remote ancestors that met dino descendants.

It makes less sense than imaginations running wild at the sight of crocodiles and dinosaur bones.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#24

Post by soapdog »

> Europeans defeated indigenous peoples throughout history, by superior technology and numbers.

Oh boi, not this horrible and flawed argument again. People have learned nothing from recent research into the impact of diseases in that history? Popular books like "Guns, Germs, and Steel", and "1491" give you a view into these matters and provide one with references for their sources for research.

This idea of "Europe won because it is good at tech" really needs to die. The best weapon Europe had when fighting indigenous people in the Americas was actually various kinds of pox.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#25

Post by fogihujy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #18
fogihujy wrote: post #4

I'm not sure about the descriptions of Neanderthals presented in this article, but the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched.

> the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched. Given that we know that thoughout recorded history people have made stories like that up about the community of the same human species over the next hill, it may be not-too-farfetched, but it is also a wildly unnecessary conjecture.

Definitely. It's an interesting idea, but going from "this could have happened" to saying "it did happen", is quite a leap. :)

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#26

Post by b112 »

Bayart wrote: post #23
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always though that dragons were also sourced from a vague genetic memory passed down from very remote ancestors that met dino descendants.

It makes less sense than imaginations running wild at the sight of crocodiles and dinosaur bones.

Even the fisherman's tale of how big the fish was, applies.

Some guy with a sword kills a big croc, which is a good feat! Yet each telling the croc is bigger, more fierce, especially as the alcohol flows.

His grandkids hear the story too.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#27

Post by axguscbklp »

soapdog wrote: post #24

> Europeans defeated indigenous peoples throughout history, by superior technology and numbers. Oh boi, not this horrible and flawed argument again. People have learned nothing from recent research into the impact of diseases in that history? Popular books like "Guns, Germs, and Steel", and "1491" give you a view into these matters and provide one with references for their sources for research. This idea of "Europe w…

True, but from what I understand the Europeans would probably have won anyway. In 1500 AD, indigenous Americans had about the same level of technological development that Europeans had had in 1500 BC, so I suspect that unfortunately even had diseases not played a role, it probably would just have been a matter of time before the Europeans managed to bring over enough people to overrun the Americas. It would have taken longer but I doubt that the indigenous Americans would have been able to adopt European technology fast enough and on a large enough scale to beat the Europeans back.

Now on the other hand, if Europe had suffered something like 50%+ death from American diseases while indigenous Americans suffered much lower death tolls from European disease - in other words, the reverse of what actually happened - then I figure that all bets would have been off. In that timeline maybe the indigenous Americans would have had enough room to maneuver that they would have been able to adopt European technologies in time to defend their lands.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#28

Post by jgilias »

soapdog wrote: post #24

> Europeans defeated indigenous peoples throughout history, by superior technology and numbers. Oh boi, not this horrible and flawed argument again. People have learned nothing from recent research into the impact of diseases in that history? Popular books like "Guns, Germs, and Steel", and "1491" give you a view into these matters and provide one with references for their sources for research. This idea of "Europe w…

A serious question. Why didn't the opposite happen? Why wouldn't the arriving Europeans drop like flies after encountering foreign pathogens thus killing off the entire conquest?

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#29

Post by wincy »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #8
fogihujy wrote: post #4

I'm not sure about the descriptions of Neanderthals presented in this article, but the idea that old tales of orcs and elves originated many millennia ago as descriptions of other human species or other primates isn't that far-fetched.

I always though that dragons were also sourced from a vague genetic memory passed down from very remote ancestors that met dino descendants.

It’s a very good possibility that the reason we think dragons lived in caves was because there are so many cave bear skeletal remains in caves throughout Europe.

Imagine finding a 12 foot long skeleton in a cave, or just a skull of an impossibly large animal, of course it’s a dragon!

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#30

Post by HelloNurse »

soapdog wrote: post #24

> Europeans defeated indigenous peoples throughout history, by superior technology and numbers. Oh boi, not this horrible and flawed argument again. People have learned nothing from recent research into the impact of diseases in that history? Popular books like "Guns, Germs, and Steel", and "1491" give you a view into these matters and provide one with references for their sources for research. This idea of "Europe w…

Horses and guns might have had a little impact too. Consider, for example, the "battle" of Cajamarca.
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