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Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

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Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#21
post #2

I see this as a propaganda piece. The unique problem with India is that, a decade ago, it had a small but highly educated, privileged urban population, spread across a handful of cities, who are the most vocal in national media and social media. This was the situation when SV companies made inroads to India. Then came the mobile revolution and the availability of smartphones coupled with dead cheap internet. The rura…

I suddenly realized it was propaganda too when I go up to this gem of journalistic objectivity:

"His “Digital India” campaign (whose website, incidentally, has pretty horrid design) [...]"

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is arguably faithfully following the US here, because Modi's populism has more than a few parallels to Trump.

Given the timelines involved, I'd say it's more likely that not that Modi is following in the footsteps of Xi Jinping. In fact most of Asia is in the hands of some kind of ethno-nationalist leader, from Duterte in the Phillipines to Suga in Japan, Xi in China or Jae-In in S. Korea. Modi is not really exceptional when viewed on the scale of other asian leaders. But Asia has always had a much more ethno-nationalist ben…

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Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#23
post #11

Oh good. Maybe they can come back to India and develop the indigenous software industry.

India has some amazing tech getting made. For instance Hasura. I think India is doing to software what China has done to manufacturing.

What is that? I’m finding it hard to think of the analogues between software and manufacturing.

Your example of Hasura seems to be a company following the SV model

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#24
This seems to be very related to the other article on first page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27488950

Seems like US tech companies were exporting US politics and values to India (whether by design or by simply forgetting that not all the world is US) and the government decided that doesn't fit their own goals. I see more of this starting to show up as US citizens demand that tech companies take active part in political censorship which will inevitably lead to clashes with cultures who don't fully agree with currently popular stances.

This goes double for more authariatiran right-wing governmenments. After all, even previous US administration lashed out at tech companies when it decided it didn't like content removal and fact checking.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#25
I don't like the crazy Hindu nationalism of current India at all. But the premise of this article is wrong and arrogant. India is a sovereign country and it has every right to define what is legal political discourse and what is not. The idea that the authority on this are some US companies or another outside force is absurd.

Media and free speech is regulated all over the world including in the USA. Outright racism will be banned within seconds on US social media, and you guys even banned your former president. As an outsider I might disagree with this from a theoretical perspective but I have no say in it, the formulation of these limits lies with the nation state, in USA as in India.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#26
post #2

I see this as a propaganda piece. The unique problem with India is that, a decade ago, it had a small but highly educated, privileged urban population, spread across a handful of cities, who are the most vocal in national media and social media. This was the situation when SV companies made inroads to India. Then came the mobile revolution and the availability of smartphones coupled with dead cheap internet. The rura…

I suddenly realized it was propaganda too when I go up to this gem of journalistic objectivity: "His “Digital India” campaign (whose website, incidentally, has pretty horrid design) [...]"

Perhaps ironically the only thing I can agree with in that article.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#27
post #2

I see this as a propaganda piece. The unique problem with India is that, a decade ago, it had a small but highly educated, privileged urban population, spread across a handful of cities, who are the most vocal in national media and social media. This was the situation when SV companies made inroads to India. Then came the mobile revolution and the availability of smartphones coupled with dead cheap internet. The rura…

Modi and his fan club have spent so much time and energy pissing off so many people that the moment they show weakness there will be major repercussions. So its a trap. All this "taming" SV narrative is their only move. The more control they have, the more people they piss off, the deeper the hole they dig themselves into gets. Sooner or later no one will help them out of the hole. And they can stay there and chant about their delusions of control.

Given the incompetence they have displayed its fascinating how anyone can have faith that such a govt can "tame", leave alone control SV.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#28

India somehow had stumbled and took a turn towards the Hindu right wing majoritarianism/ultra nationalism. It has certainly caused long term effects, the pace of reforms has slowed down considerably. Major policy decisions seems to be stuck in limbo for years, for example regarding Walmart: atleast for 10 years Walmart trying to start retail operations in India, but government hasn't given clarity on policy. Similarl…

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Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#29
post #7

This is a theme that will apply in a variety of different areas, well beyond Silicon Valley. There was a sense in the late couple of decades that India will become a faithful follower of US practices (if not policies) with its easily accessible population for everything from movies to ecommerce, food chains to apparel brands and more. The implied sense was that the rapidly growing middle-class would want to mimic (or…

India is arguably faithfully following the US here, because Modi's populism has more than a few parallels to Trump.

You're overestimating Trump. India under Modi is in the process of trying to build an authoritarian Hindu nation-state with a completely alternative model compared to the secular, western-inspired mode it has run on up until now.

Trump, despite tricking a few LARPers into thinking he had some kind of great agenda was just a TV show host. He was about as likely to rebuild the US in some kind of new image as a televangelist is in bringing the kingdom of god to earth.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#30
This needs to be understood in the context of a cultural onslaught of American values. More than just social media, services like Netflix, Prime, Disney are streaming live into millions of households in India.

India has its own authentic identity that is under severe threat. If you look at China / East Asia - it is culturally and aesthetically like the West, mostly America, other than language and deference to authority.

India has been traditionally liberal through the ages, it has more diverse cultures embedded in society and has fought much fewer internal wars than any ancient civilization. Few other cultures have outright pacifist icons such as Buddha or Gandhi. It has been able to absorb external influences gradually while maintaining its own distinct identity.

The backlash we see is not as harsh as China or the Islamic world, but India will need its own gradual pace to accept changes. It is more than this core liberalism that connects India to the West. While India and America are not geopolitically aligned, Indians in America have formed deep cultural roots that connect the two cultures. Technology leaders like Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella are role models for every child in India, so is American VP Kamala Harris.

The article in my view is not wrong, but takes a very narrow view of things. Other than the few 100 posts that Indian authorities have removed, there are 100s of thousands of critical posts that are still widely circulated. The government inadvertently makes "own goals" and add fuel to fire when it does stupid things like this. The farmer's protest blew up in their face and this is not the end.

There is a lot more to be hopeful about India rather than expect it to follow narrow nationalism of China or fierce capitalism of America.

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