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Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

politico.eu

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Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#21

Post by briefcomment »

Ekaros wrote: post #17
foliveira wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no request (afaik) done by any of the involved parties. By law, if you’re planning a rally/event/etc you have to make a request to your local mayorship, who then approves it (or not) while informing the police about it, so that security details can be planned. Since the rallies in question involved displays related to certain countries or were held in front of embassies (like the one supporting Navalny, whi…

Sounds entirely reasonable and sane process. You have to allow these foreign embassies to prepare against potential terrorist activities. In some case when known anti-government terrorist forces are identified they have good reason to increase preparedness.

Why in the world would it be reasonable to give out home addresses in this situation?

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#22

Post by bjornsing »

arpa wrote: post #2

Obvious incompetence bordering on malevolence aside, isn't that also a violation of GDPR?

Perhaps. But the interaction of the GDPR and freedom of information / public records is quite complicated. For example in Sweden there’s a law that says that access to public records (Tryckfrifrihetsförordningen) takes precedence over the GDPR. On the other hand EU law generally takes precedence over national law and there is no exception in the GDPR itself AFAIK.

Public records can however only be accessed by request, and only by a Swedish citizen, so this situation probably wouldn’t fall under that exception had this happened in Sweden. IANAL but I think this would have been a violation of the GDPR had it happened in Sweden, and a quite serious one at that. Formally I think it could also fall under various espionage laws since there are foreign powers involved (but probably not in practice).

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#23

Post by figassis »

tchalla wrote: post #8

I read two articles on Politico.EU on the subject. Yet, I have a few questions. First, was there a request made to share data? Second, if there was a request made - what is the legal procedure to share data? Third, if there was no request made - why did the Portugal proactively share data?

Portugal is not very competitive internationally, so their economy became dependent on government contracts and deals with politically exposed persons. For example, most of Angola's corrupt elite stashed their wealth in Portugal by buying property and businesses. Additionally, corrupt countries are very hard to do business in without kickbacks, but if you're willing to play the game, it becomes very easy, as in your businesses get a lot of government handouts, your interests are protected, etc. There is a law in Angola where foreign businesses can only enter the country if they partner with a local, and usually those "locals" are ministers, generals, the president's family and friends, etc. Local businesses are roadblocked to your benefit.

When you become comfortable operating this way, you'l do anything to maintain your relationship. And I kid you not, A large chunk of Portugals economy is powered by Angola.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross »

foliveira wrote: post #12
tchalla wrote: post #8

I read two articles on Politico.EU on the subject. Yet, I have a few questions. First, was there a request made to share data? Second, if there was a request made - what is the legal procedure to share data? Third, if there was no request made - why did the Portugal proactively share data?

There was no request (afaik) done by any of the involved parties. By law, if you’re planning a rally/event/etc you have to make a request to your local mayorship, who then approves it (or not) while informing the police about it, so that security details can be planned. Since the rallies in question involved displays related to certain countries or were held in front of embassies (like the one supporting Navalny, whi…

> were held in front of embassies

Fine. But Correia's "protest was held on the Largo de Camões, which is nowhere near the Chinese embassy," so that doesn't apply.

> related to certain countries

Sorry, this doesn't follow. If I show up for a Tiananmen massacre vigil in New York, Gracie Mansion doesn't and doesn't need to notify the Chinese embassy.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#25

Post by [deleted] »

baybal2 wrote: post #20

Well, Lisbon is not only one, but pretty much all of progressive liberal West been in bed with enemies at some point for "strategic" reasons (which usually means cash, and other treats.) France deports Russians with protected refugee status upon KGB requests in exchange for Russia staying away from them in Africa Poland plays double games with Belorussian opposition, promising assisting in smuggling weapons, and then…

[deleted]

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#26

Post by baybal2 »

foliveira wrote: post #12
tchalla wrote: post #8

I read two articles on Politico.EU on the subject. Yet, I have a few questions. First, was there a request made to share data? Second, if there was a request made - what is the legal procedure to share data? Third, if there was no request made - why did the Portugal proactively share data?

There was no request (afaik) done by any of the involved parties. By law, if you’re planning a rally/event/etc you have to make a request to your local mayorship, who then approves it (or not) while informing the police about it, so that security details can be planned. Since the rallies in question involved displays related to certain countries or were held in front of embassies (like the one supporting Navalny, whi…

Freedom of assembly conditional upon something is not a freedom, by definition.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#27

Post by varjag »

victormeriqui wrote: post #15
axiosgunnar wrote: post #6

Weird that they would pander to ALL foreign regimes? I understand if Portugal made itself economically dependent on imports from a China for example, and China asked „if Lisbon happed to know any trouble-makers“? But sending it out to anyone who asked, China, Israel, Russia, probably Arab states… Why?

It wasn't to anyone that asked, the city hall sent it willingly to any embassy "relevant" to the protest in context I don't think it was a case of pandering to economically important regimes, it was more like disgusting and malicious incompetence, like most things that come out of the public sector in Lisbon with this government

People who are born free and live all their lives in free societies sometimes have certain sensibility atrophied. The concept of authoritarian states to them is as far fetched as non carbon-based life.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#28

Post by FpUser »

jdmoreira wrote: post #14
axiosgunnar wrote: post #6

Weird that they would pander to ALL foreign regimes? I understand if Portugal made itself economically dependent on imports from a China for example, and China asked „if Lisbon happed to know any trouble-makers“? But sending it out to anyone who asked, China, Israel, Russia, probably Arab states… Why?

Pure stupidity. Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence and stupidity

>"Pure stupidity. Never attribute to malice..."

Like drunk drivers. They were just stupid and did not mean anything bad. Right? Sorry but if part of the government stuff that creates the rules is that "smart" they should be in janitorial positions. Problem is government nearly always gets away with anything they do.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#29

Post by JumpCrisscross »

axiosgunnar wrote: post #6

Weird that they would pander to ALL foreign regimes? I understand if Portugal made itself economically dependent on imports from a China for example, and China asked „if Lisbon happed to know any trouble-makers“? But sending it out to anyone who asked, China, Israel, Russia, probably Arab states… Why?

> sending it out to anyone who asked, China, Israel, Russia, probably Arab states… Why?

If attributed to stupidity, someone got lazy about looking up where protests and their relevant embassies were and so started sending out every protest's every detail to every relevant embassy.

If attributed to malice, to hide the fact that they're providing this to Angola and China by providing it to everyone.

Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years

#30

Post by icebraining »

muro wrote: post #4
arpa wrote: post #2

Obvious incompetence bordering on malevolence aside, isn't that also a violation of GDPR?

I thought GDPR does not apply to the government.

Doesn't apply to law enforcement, but it does to government generally. In fact, one of the biggest fines yet in Portugal was paid by a public hospital.
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