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TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

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Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#21

Post by velikhan »

chx wrote: post #12
nomay wrote: post #11

I'm surprised to see a typical Chinese "self-media" article being shared here, coz I myself see these as nothing more than gossip blogs, so please take them with huge amount of salt or just avoid it. At least in my experience these are highly refined entertainment product with little to no regard to what's fact, opinion and pure made-up bullshit, their only goal is to maximize click numbers, thus more often than not…

Nonetheless , I was unaware of TSMC and ASML making a lithography breakthrough before EUV and so that at least is valuable information.

That part of the story checks out too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_lithography

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn-Jeng_Lin

Myself, am amused how the translators did not consult English sources and also how the writers of the wikipedia article probably didn’t know about the analogy to immersion microscope objectives. This industry is curiously insular.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#22

Post by nomay »

rjzzleep wrote: post #13
nomay wrote: post #11

I'm surprised to see a typical Chinese "self-media" article being shared here, coz I myself see these as nothing more than gossip blogs, so please take them with huge amount of salt or just avoid it. At least in my experience these are highly refined entertainment product with little to no regard to what's fact, opinion and pure made-up bullshit, their only goal is to maximize click numbers, thus more often than not…

How is Chinese "self-media" being gossip blogs needing salt different from all the jobs, elon musk, paul graham and other kind of hero worship this place is normally overflowing with? Don't get me wrong, I'm generally against Hero worship in general, and I have my fair share of beefs with ALL these different hero worship things, but I grew up on Bill Gates hero worship only to later find out that he sold the whole th…

Coz Chinese people have been conditioned by a level censorship and media control unseen elsewhere, the resulting susceptibility to yummy and palatble disinformation is quite deep and prevalent, you may have read news about strong reaction about strange things from the west, you guessed it right there's alway legions of "self-media" behind it, it’s unfettered and state sanctioned algorithm-driven circlejerk machine, and the reason ByteDance's platforms make so much money.

Why do I need to point out it being "Chinese"? Coz these self-media platforms are the predominant way of getting information there, nobody but old people watch TVs and read newspapers, even stated-owned news orgs have to get on it to make money.

>The “Post-Truth” Publication Where Chinese Students in America Get Their News"

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-post-trut...

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#23

Post by baybal2 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #8
ggm wrote: post #2

Interesting read. A little "florid" perhaps, some turns of phrase probably don't survive translation. I don't envy anyone who works the midnight shift in a 24/7 r&d boilerhouse. Liver eater indeed. Given US strategic concerns in VLSI we are probably going to see another slightly different chapter in this story:TSMC being induced to bring core IPR inside domestic US production, presumably for cash injection and guaran…

Inducing TSMC to bring production capability into the US is all benefits for the US but strategically it is bad for Taiwan. Indeed, if there are enough fabs in the US then the continued availability of fabs in Taiwan is much less important for the US, and thus Taiwan becomes less important for the US, which obviously has consequences in terms of any US involvement in defence of Taiwan in case of a military conflict w…

It Taiwanese industry goes belly up, a single fab in US will make zero difference.

A big chunk of semi industry is single vendor, including consumables.

It happens every time when there is an earthquake in Taiwan: the entirety of semi industry, in, and outside of the country stands still for a few weeks.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#24

Post by alliao »

luplex wrote: post #5

Fascinating. Stories like this really make me want to learn Chinese and/or move there for a while. The story highlights how they were able to benefit from US culture and education, to the point where they now took the lead. I wonder how the West could benefit from Asian culture.

the context behind such article I think should be provided.. China regards Taiwan as part of China, whether right now or eventually depends on how much CCP koolaid they've consumed. The whole Huawei chip ban from the US really shook Chinese to the core, and suddenly TSMC became strategic asset. And this is one of those articles wanting to sensationalise the history a bit. Largest grains of salt for me.

Chinese have invested absolute mind boggling amount of money to kick start their semiconductor industry, many people mentioned in the article have gone to work for and have already quit China; whether that was their intention to defraud the CCP or not is not obvious. But I haven't seen any signs of China having capacity on producing chips yet. Most high profile hires and companies have failed like the one Chiang went to

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3123429/troubled-chi...

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#25

Post by throwaway4good »

nomay wrote: post #11

I'm surprised to see a typical Chinese "self-media" article being shared here, coz I myself see these as nothing more than gossip blogs, so please take them with huge amount of salt or just avoid it. At least in my experience these are highly refined entertainment product with little to no regard to what's fact, opinion and pure made-up bullshit, their only goal is to maximize click numbers, thus more often than not…

Why is that a problem? HN spends plenty time discussing blog entries and posts from people who are not professional media.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#26

Post by baybal2 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #10
nickff wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan would be foolish to believe such American promises. The USA made similar promises to Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum (under Clinton), and subsequently did not fulfill its obligations (under Obama).

Europe and the US never wanted to be forced to intervene in Ukraine, hence why they were not in a rush to consider Ukraine's push to join NATO. The Budapest memorandum does not make any promises to help. Regarding Crimea, the breach is Russia's, not the West's.

> The Budapest memorandum does not make any promises to help.

It does, go read the text

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#27

Post by igravious »

techdragon wrote: post #20
dannyw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cultural belief that other countries do things better is what you describe. It's pretty Australian and American to think your country is the best at most things.

As an Australian... I have no idea where this idea comes from. American Exceptionalism has historically been a thing, but other than a general impression that equipment which have been designed and built locally in Australia tend to be above average assuming that it wasn’t built to be the cheapest... the idea that “our stuff is the best” has never really been a thing, except maybe Beer... and only among people who ar…

> the idea that “our stuff is the best” has never really been a thing, except maybe Beer... and only among people who are obviously fans of that beer.

Are you saying that Ozzies regard their beer as world-beating (or are you saying the opposite) – I can't parse that sentence …

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#28

Post by mytailorisrich »

baybal2 wrote: post #26
mytailorisrich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and the US never wanted to be forced to intervene in Ukraine, hence why they were not in a rush to consider Ukraine's push to join NATO. The Budapest memorandum does not make any promises to help. Regarding Crimea, the breach is Russia's, not the West's.

> The Budapest memorandum does not make any promises to help. It does, go read the text

I have. So where does it?

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#29

Post by antattack »

Propaganda at it's best (he refused outright, yet visited Samsung...just to have a look): "Morris Chang was now struggling to get sales/orders, but he was tired of being second and third, and he firmly refused Samsung. Lee Kun-hee did not give up, and invited him to visit Samsung. Morris Chang readily accepted, and after visiting the factory for half a day, he even praised Samsung's production capacity as "impressive", but still refused to leave TSMC. Seeing his firm attitude, Lee Kun-hee had to give up."

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#30

Post by wyuenho »

dannyw wrote: post #16
wyuenho wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's implying Euromaiden in 2014 as a EU and US instigated event to erode Ukraine's political independence, thus, justifying Russia's invasion of the Crimea. We should know by now whenever region moves away from an authoritarian power's orbit is regarded by these powers' as some kind of foreign influence and subversive operation. They think it's impossible that the people themselves actually don't like authoritarian…

Nothing special to authoritarian governments. Both the left and right in the USA like to believe it's foreign influence than half the country having (sometimes drastically) different views. The city/rural biases don't help either as you mostly see people with similar views to you.

This is a new phenomenon in the US, mostly because of party elder denial.
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