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Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

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Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#21

Post by robotmay »

esja wrote: post #19

I've been typing for 36 years now (since I was a child), and have never had RSI once, or anything close to it. I think it's because I never learned to touch-type "properly". I use most of my fingers, and I type very fast, but I'm not hitting the "correct" keys with the "correct" fingers - I'm just following whatever comfortable patterns I've burned into muscle memory over all these years. If someone asked me to descr…

This is very much my experience! When I developed RSI I immediately went down the ergo-keyboard route, assuming I had been doing something wrong, when in reality it was just the change to a laptop for a long time.

It was quite weird filming myself and looking back at it. I never even noticed that I regularly hit Y with my left hand, for example!

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#22

Post by MAGZine »

nickjj wrote: post #8

> In my personal experience I found home-row typing to actually be unergonomic mostly because of the additional bend required from moving both hands closer together. I've always thought this too. I've been typing a lot since about 1996 and never got into home row typing. It never felt natural or comfortable and I don't have abnormally sized hands either. It just felt like going against the system. I don't want to jin…

this rings true actually.

I had a friend who typed with just the three fingers on the right hand while the left hand hovered all of the most essential letters with all five fingers. it seemed to work pretty well to just have one hand hunting around the keyboard. That said, it might making correct shift-usage correct which can negatively affect the other hand.

That being said, I have my laptop on my lap right now and if I have one hand on home row, and the other hand just kind of idly floating over the right side of the keyboard, when you go to place the fingers on home row, you can really feel in the wrist and forearm the muscles pulling the hand "outward," in relation to the rest of the arm. This, incidentally, is where a lot of my RSI-type pain has come from.

The elbows going out, fore arms craning inwards, and then the wrist pulling to straighten the hands back out is a recipe for pain.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#23

Post by Xevi »

elanning wrote: post #18

I have suffered from fairly bad RSI/tendonitis issues since my early 20s. Now a days I have a split keyboard and use wasd keys for my mouse, which is slower, but causes less pain. I would not wish this kind of pain on anyone. It has greatly negatively impacted my life. Hopefully future treatments will give some help, the current treatments are very lackluster.

That makes two of us. For the last year I have considered abandoning my job as a developer. 8 hours in front of the computer 5 days a week really wears you down. I do find temporary relief after having exercised. But the pain quickly returns if I start working again, even if I have a standing desk, ergonomic keyboard, touchpad and mouse.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#24

Post by robotmay »

Xevi wrote: post #20
ericbarrett wrote: post #2

I had a brief but serious bout of RSI in my right wrist in my early 30s. Ergo keyboards and novel typing layouts didn’t help at all, nor did a wrist brace. What eventually relieved it was a trackball (which the author of this article also used) and a wrist pad for that hand. I avoided normal mouses, trackpads, and the IBM/Lenovo “mouse nipple,” going so far as to bring my trackball with my laptop. I’ve switched back…

Which trackball did you use? I have tried almost every different kind of ergonomic keyboard / mouse alleviate my pain, but I haven't tried trackballs yet.

I have a Logitech MX Ergo which I quite like, which is a thumb trackball. I'm not sure how that compares to finger-trackballs though as I've never owned one, but a few friends have things like the Kensington one and like it a lot.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#25

Post by vgel »

jarnagin wrote: post #10

A lot of people really underestimate the impact that mobility and strengthening can have addressing issues with RSI. If you're struggling with RSI, consider going to physical therapy as your condition may be caused by a wide variety of issues that aren't obvious based on the pain you're having. My own experience was that I dealt with ulnar nerve RSI for about a year. During that time I wore braces at night and tried…

Same, I had horrible RSI in my wrists and went to a hand therapist (just a physical therapist who specializes in hands). She made me some thermoformed wrist braces to wear at night and gave me wrist massages which felt awesome, but the main thing she did was prescribe a set of simple wrist exercises which take about 2 minutes to do. I did them every day and my RSI is much better. I still can't do certain things that require 90deg wrist bends that support a lot of weight (mostly pushups), and I'm planning to go back after covid to continue improving, but I can actually type fine for 8 hour+ stretches at a time with 0 pain afterwards.

Most of the ergonomic typing stuff I see online is 100% bunk IMO. People spend tons of money and time on ergonomic keyboards and relearning how to type on different layouts just to buy wrist rests and type with their hands tilted up 15 degrees. Eek.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#26

Post by Xevi »

AQuantized wrote: post #15
jarnagin wrote: post #10

A lot of people really underestimate the impact that mobility and strengthening can have addressing issues with RSI. If you're struggling with RSI, consider going to physical therapy as your condition may be caused by a wide variety of issues that aren't obvious based on the pain you're having. My own experience was that I dealt with ulnar nerve RSI for about a year. During that time I wore braces at night and tried…

What sort of exercises do you do to help with this? I've been finding it very hard to work on shoulder strength, especially the scapula, without just impinging it more

I'm also interested in knowing this. On top of that I would like to know how often they exercise and for how long. I found that doing strength training helps a bit, but the relief I get from it is only temporary. I try to do it a bit every day but I guess I could increase the amount each day.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#27

Post by 5tefan »

I never learned touch typing. I am a free floater myself. Rather trying to split the load evenly between my hands. Touch typing position puts a strain on my wrist.

Incidentally I also own a Topre board. I also have my trackball to the left and I have to reach out less to move the pointer. To the right I would have to cover additional distance and the arrow keys and num pad... I felt that in my shoulder, hence the change to the left.

I also don't hate myself if I make a break or typying more slowly occasionally.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#28

Post by throwaway_moo »

robotmay wrote: post #16
throwaway_moo wrote: post #9

This is not excellent advice regarding the keyboard used. Instead: - learn about the risk factors: https://kinesis-ergo.com/solutions/keyboard-risk-factors/ Keep in mind that there are hundreds of tendons in our hands, so the pattern of inflammation is very personal. Anecdotes are not your friend. - use split keyboards (or any ergo keyboard with enough space between hands) with inclination to limit pronation - use or…

The article does address both split keyboards and ortho-linear layouts. I disagree with both, personally. Interestingly the Kinesis article you link supports the arguments I make in the article, but their solution is obviously a split keyboard because that's what they sell, rather than offering an alternative typing style. My typing style avoids all the risks they identify.

> My typing style avoids all the risks they identify.

From the article: "This is the Way"

Also: "The hands should move freely over the keyboard"

These are good examples of why we should not listen to advice based on a single example of RSI and contradicts the conclusion "no universal solution for everybody"

A lot of people experience contraction and sometimes pains in the shoulders, trapezium, arms due to moving the hands over the keyboard instead of not doing so.

It's a well documented problem.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#29

Post by elanning »

Xevi wrote: post #23
elanning wrote: post #18

I have suffered from fairly bad RSI/tendonitis issues since my early 20s. Now a days I have a split keyboard and use wasd keys for my mouse, which is slower, but causes less pain. I would not wish this kind of pain on anyone. It has greatly negatively impacted my life. Hopefully future treatments will give some help, the current treatments are very lackluster.

That makes two of us. For the last year I have considered abandoning my job as a developer. 8 hours in front of the computer 5 days a week really wears you down. I do find temporary relief after having exercised. But the pain quickly returns if I start working again, even if I have a standing desk, ergonomic keyboard, touchpad and mouse.

Sorry to hear. I hope you find something that works for you. I wish I could help, but like me, I'm sure you've already researched most solutions.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#30

Post by Xevi »

robotmay wrote: post #24
Xevi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which trackball did you use? I have tried almost every different kind of ergonomic keyboard / mouse alleviate my pain, but I haven't tried trackballs yet.

I have a Logitech MX Ergo which I quite like, which is a thumb trackball. I'm not sure how that compares to finger-trackballs though as I've never owned one, but a few friends have things like the Kensington one and like it a lot.

Alright, thanks. I've looked at that mouse before but I'm afraid that the ball will wear out my thumb even more. Maybe it's worth a shot though, or maybe I should go for one of those Kensington trackballs that you use your whole hand with.
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