Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#21

Post by oaiey » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #16

raxxorrax wrote: post #9

The law itself makes sense in my opinion, but the way it was introduced makes the self declaration as being democratic a cheap farce. I doubt the EU will survive in its current state. 10 years ago that would have made me sad. There are enthusiasts, but not enough to make it work.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

That is a very good point. Problem is that the enthusiasts are the young people across Europe and not exactly a minority. That is a 50:50 or 60:40 thing.

So when you satisfy on group (good enough) you will make the the other half unhappy.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#22

Post by mamon » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #16

raxxorrax wrote: post #9

The law itself makes sense in my opinion, but the way it was introduced makes the self declaration as being democratic a cheap farce. I doubt the EU will survive in its current state. 10 years ago that would have made me sad. There are enthusiasts, but not enough to make it work.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

In fact I think EU should take few steps back: the perfect state was before Lisbon treaty, when EU was basically just a free trade zone. Since Lisbon they try to make it a single country, with unified policy on international affairs, military, etc, which doesn't make sense.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#23

Post by chki » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:04 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #16

raxxorrax wrote: post #9

The law itself makes sense in my opinion, but the way it was introduced makes the self declaration as being democratic a cheap farce. I doubt the EU will survive in its current state. 10 years ago that would have made me sad. There are enthusiasts, but not enough to make it work.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

>Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

Citation needed. While there is some anti-European sentiment in all member states those are almost always in the minority. There are a lot of people who want more integration.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#24

Post by zoobab » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

animationwill wrote: post #2

I haven’t heard about this Unitary Patent Court. Is this a new judicial body in the EU? Where does it’s position rank compared to other EU judicial bodies? The article seems to be written for those (legislators) who would already know the background

"a new judicial body in the EU"

Not really, more like an international court with the blessing of the EU.

Cameron forced a deal in 2012 to not have the CJEU as a legislator in patent law, and Merkel and Hollande and other countries bowed to his demand in order to have a deal.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#25

Post by skocznymroczny » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #12

tpetry wrote: post #7

As a german i am quite sure they will ratify software patents. The very sad part is the people deciding this have absolutely no understanding what they are doing and that they open the box of pandora. There is currently almost no invest money in european startups, and if everyone of these startups is liable for bogus software patents they will have absolutely no chance on getting big.

With von der Leyen being president, I am pretty sure we make the wrong decision. Yes, some Europeans might think she looks sympathetic, especially those that don't know her well because of language barriers. That she is on the position is testament to the democratic dysfunction of the Union. Officially she is in a conservative party, which eastern European countries liked very much. If we want to take democracy serio…

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#26

Post by nix23 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #22

kzrdude wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

In fact I think EU should take few steps back: the perfect state was before Lisbon treaty, when EU was basically just a free trade zone. Since Lisbon they try to make it a single country, with unified policy on international affairs, military, etc, which doesn't make sense.

>EU was basically just a free trade zone

Exactly! That's what the EU should be and nothing more.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#27

Post by simias » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #22

kzrdude wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

In fact I think EU should take few steps back: the perfect state was before Lisbon treaty, when EU was basically just a free trade zone. Since Lisbon they try to make it a single country, with unified policy on international affairs, military, etc, which doesn't make sense.

I mean that's the crux of the issue, is the EU just a liberal (in the non-american sense) free-trade zone or is it more that that. I personally would like it to be more, but I understand that it's a very controversial topic.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#28

Post by tssva » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

tpetry wrote: post #7

As a german i am quite sure they will ratify software patents. The very sad part is the people deciding this have absolutely no understanding what they are doing and that they open the box of pandora. There is currently almost no invest money in european startups, and if everyone of these startups is liable for bogus software patents they will have absolutely no chance on getting big.

I don't like software patents but I have a hard time buying that it will limit investment further. It hasn't significantly done so in the US where software patents have long existed. I imagine it may spur investment because investors see software patents as protecting their investments in startups from both other startups and established companies.

Edited to correct a typo kindly pointed out by a comment below.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#29

Post by zoobab » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

CodeGlitch wrote: post #20

pbowyer wrote: post #10

But only in a "limited and specific" way, so that's okay [UK in-joke] At least we're not the only country wanting to violate international agreements at present

Countries break international law all the time [1]. Doesn't make it right of course, but funny how in the UK's case it suddently makes headlines (no surprise really from the usual remainer-suspects). [1] https://www.insideover.com/politics/un-accuses-eu-of-violati...

This is what several lawyers told me, people are making a fuss about the UK breaking the Withdrawal Agreement, but other countries do the same in other fields.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#30

Post by rbecker » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #22

kzrdude wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enthusiasts need to temper their dreams and expectations - EU is doing fine, and doesn't need to always become more powerful or more integrated. Especially not now, when citizens don't want it.

In fact I think EU should take few steps back: the perfect state was before Lisbon treaty, when EU was basically just a free trade zone. Since Lisbon they try to make it a single country, with unified policy on international affairs, military, etc, which doesn't make sense.

Of all the things the EU does, unified international policy makes the most sense to me - only way to avoid getting picked off one by one.

It's the attempt at unifying countries internal policies that I don't see the point of.