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How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

gnu.org

21–30 of 33 posts

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple? Linux phones are about 3x more popular. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

Android isn’t really Linux, in that the commodity open source kernel is wrapped by proprietary value added software maintained by an army of highly paid professionals. You could swap out the kernel and no user would notice, or care.

[deleted]

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you mention this, it makes it sound as if this is the worst that Apple does. Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps. End of the day it's your decision whether you want to still use an Apple device, assuming you have the choice, after knowing the potential problems with it.

But this wasn't "allowed" or endorsed by Apple. It was a third-party company doing something underhanded. Is there some reason Dropbox would be more trustworthy on Linux? I think the "lame overreach" hurts the credibility of the argument--even if it has merit.

Apple actually worked against Dropbox a few times in recent years, and added a bunch of APIs for annotating files in Finder, to stop Dropbox from monkeypatching it.

More recently Dropbox has started using a kernel extension to support its SmartSync feature, which will soon be stymied, as Apple makes it more convoluted to load third party kexts in Big Sur.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#23

Please, no more propaganda from GNU. It’s biased and misleading. I get the feeling that they had the budget to buy fake news on Facebook, they would jump at the chance. They’re the Breitbart of fundamentalist software proselytism.

Instead of being humble, they’re seeing the world as their way or the highway. It’s incredibly naive, arrogant and inconsiderate.

I'm not sure why y'all are surprised by this, it's been the GNU/FSF schtick for decades and it's not going to change ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#24
post #13

> In MacOS and iOS, the procedure for converting images from the Photos format[1] to a free format is so tedious and time-consuming that users just give up if they have a lot of them. [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/photos/export-photos-videos-... This (and a bunch of others) seems poorly sourced. It looks like Photos.app behaves the same as Aperture.app and many others. Your Library is a special folder. Your ori…

HEIF/HEVC aren't completely open formats though, AFAIR. I'm pretty sure there's some kind of patent royalty involved in some things people might want to do with them. That alone makes them incompatible with GNU's ideals, such as they are.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#25
post #24
post #13

> In MacOS and iOS, the procedure for converting images from the Photos format[1] to a free format is so tedious and time-consuming that users just give up if they have a lot of them. [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/photos/export-photos-videos-... This (and a bunch of others) seems poorly sourced. It looks like Photos.app behaves the same as Aperture.app and many others. Your Library is a special folder. Your ori…

HEIF/HEVC aren't completely open formats though, AFAIR. I'm pretty sure there's some kind of patent royalty involved in some things people might want to do with them. That alone makes them incompatible with GNU's ideals, such as they are.

That's true, but that's an argument about the iPhone and not Photos. On the iPhone, there's literally a switch to instead save as jpg/h.264...which do have their own patent problems (there have been various successful patent collections on jpeg and h.264 is subject to the same MPEG LA group HEVC is).

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget security. Linux laptops are a gaping hole compared to my MacBook Pro. I really despise some of the open source crusaders that look the other way when things don’t fit their narrative. Common tools such as Postgres, Swift, Python, OpenSSH, billion other pieces of open software that are funded by the same companies that this article shits on. There is a place for proprietary software in the society. And th…

Let's be very clear, this is from gnu.org, so this is not "open source crusaders", this is "free software zealots". There are no compromises when it comes to Free Software, no pragmatism and no leeway for choices to be made that serve a purpose if they reduce the freedom of the software. I am not explicitly criticising GNU/FSF, but I think it's important to remember that they are always going to take the most extreme…

free software people will rewrite proprietary software under a free and open source license. Open source people will rewrite free software licensed software under a open source license. From a pragmatic perspective, I rather pick the former than the later, and the practical benefits are noticeable when going from a proprietary software to an free and open source version, but going from GPL to MIT has no meaningful impact on my ability to use the program.

Talking about pragmatism, why do a weather app developers feel the need to get permission to access to my contact list, sms, my web browser history, and so on? It seems clear that regardless of what kind of software a developer, community or company do, there are political aspects that pushes away pragmatism. Simple programs that do a practical job and nothing else should be the norm, but there seems to always be a will to push it away from that.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#27

...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple? The list is of course right (perhaps up to fine details) but misses the point. Apple products, and same for Android, are utterly usable without a degree in Linuxology. You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos that cannot possibly be scrutinised for security details…

> You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. I really don't know a lot of people who feel confident doing a macOS update. The thing borks everything so often it's not even a meme, just a fact of life so people I know tend to be super careful with it and only update when the apps they use start dropping compatibility for older OSXes (or when they buy a new mac :-)).

Sorry, but this is just not adding anything. I have run fleets of Macs before and borked installs are rare to say the least. To suggest it’s a meme is simply ridiculous. As to app compatibility, similar things happen on Linux. From years of experience managing servers, unmet dependencies with package managers and unsupported/no-longer supported libraries are a daily fact of life.

I’m not going to deny there are issues with the Mac (or iOS) platform, there clearly are, but let’s keep it honest. While we’re at it, let’s keep it honest about other platforms too.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#28

...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple? The list is of course right (perhaps up to fine details) but misses the point. Apple products, and same for Android, are utterly usable without a degree in Linuxology. You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos that cannot possibly be scrutinised for security details…

> You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. I really don't know a lot of people who feel confident doing a macOS update. The thing borks everything so often it's not even a meme, just a fact of life so people I know tend to be super careful with it and only update when the apps they use start dropping compatibility for older OSXes (or when they buy a new mac :-)).

To your anecdote, I am mac os user for about 8 years now. I blindly update whenever there is an update notification without reservation. Not a single issue encountered in all these years. I am sure there are legions of users like me.

Have multiple macs and use them for both personal and work use.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#29
post #2

“The Dropbox app for Macintosh...” seems like a very lame overreach.

The way you mention this, it makes it sound as if this is the worst that Apple does. Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps. End of the day it's your decision whether you want to still use an Apple device, assuming you have the choice, after knowing the potential problems with it.

It’s a crazy argument from them, considering their licensing allows anyone to do anything they like with a system apart from hide the resulting source code. Policing third parties like Dropbox is actually a strength of a proprietary system, so why bring it up at all?

I could make the claim that GNU software can get you killed, because military organisations build applications on top of it. This is true, but it hardly seems a fair point to make in assessing something like GNU/Linux.

There are legitimate weaknesses and user hostile designs in Apple operating systems, but Dropbox is not one of them.

Edited to add: anyone who remotely cares about security would not allow Dropbox anywhere near their systems, but that’s another discussion!

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#30
post #2

“The Dropbox app for Macintosh...” seems like a very lame overreach.

The way you mention this, it makes it sound as if this is the worst that Apple does. Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps. End of the day it's your decision whether you want to still use an Apple device, assuming you have the choice, after knowing the potential problems with it.

"Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps."

And the same people will cry censorship if Apple tries to enforce anything on Dropbox.

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