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How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

gnu.org

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Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#11

Post by dijit »

jcelerier wrote: post #7
rich_sasha wrote: post #4

...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple? The list is of course right (perhaps up to fine details) but misses the point. Apple products, and same for Android, are utterly usable without a degree in Linuxology. You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos that cannot possibly be scrutinised for security details…

> You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. I really don't know a lot of people who feel confident doing a macOS update. The thing borks everything so often it's not even a meme, just a fact of life so people I know tend to be super careful with it and only update when the apps they use start dropping compatibility for older OSXes (or when they buy a new mac :-)).

People usually delay updating because it requires a /really/ long time. My Mac Pro (2013, trashcan) takes upwards of an hour for a point release.

I don't really have an hour to dick around during working hours and I don't want to leave my machine on overnight (or if I do it's because I want it to be doing something). So I almost never update.

IME it doesn't break as often as Windows; but Linux is "best" here, updates are in the single-digit minutes.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#13

Post by pfranz »

> In MacOS and iOS, the procedure for converting images from the Photos format[1] to a free format is so tedious and time-consuming that users just give up if they have a lot of them.

[1] https://support.apple.com/guide/photos/export-photos-videos-...

This (and a bunch of others) seems poorly sourced. It looks like Photos.app behaves the same as Aperture.app and many others. Your Library is a special folder. Your original photos are kept in whatever format they were originally taken in and all organizationational and library metadata are in a series of sqlite databases that are logically organized. I would be happy to see an open source photo library app structured the same way.

If you want original files, copy them out. If you want changes or metadata, dig through the databases. If you want "baked out" images, bulk export from Photos.app.

Modern iPhones will capture HEIF and HEVC photo and video, but it's not like they're secret or proprietary file formats. Apple switched away from JPEG and MOV because those formats are less efficient and cannot support modern features--much better than CR2/NEF raw formats other camera makers use.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#14

Post by cmsj »

systemvoltage wrote: post #8
rich_sasha wrote: post #4

...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple? The list is of course right (perhaps up to fine details) but misses the point. Apple products, and same for Android, are utterly usable without a degree in Linuxology. You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos that cannot possibly be scrutinised for security details…

Don’t forget security. Linux laptops are a gaping hole compared to my MacBook Pro. I really despise some of the open source crusaders that look the other way when things don’t fit their narrative. Common tools such as Postgres, Swift, Python, OpenSSH, billion other pieces of open software that are funded by the same companies that this article shits on. There is a place for proprietary software in the society. And th…

Let's be very clear, this is from gnu.org, so this is not "open source crusaders", this is "free software zealots". There are no compromises when it comes to Free Software, no pragmatism and no leeway for choices to be made that serve a purpose if they reduce the freedom of the software.

I am not explicitly criticising GNU/FSF, but I think it's important to remember that they are always going to take the most extreme view on these matters, because that's why those projects exist.

(personally I see FSF/RMS as a lighthouse. I find their presence useful for navigation, but I don't necessarily want to get too close to them ;)

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#15

Post by kirstenbirgit »

Sure, there's a lot of things wrong with Apple's operating systems. I would love for them to be more open, and the ability to install non-signed apps on my iPhone (although they've added all the features I used to jailbreak for.)

But what's with the weird tone? iMonsters? 10 year old news articles?

And why's it so bad that other applications can do malicious stuff on your computer? Shouldn't the author be happy that there's still enough openness on the Mac for this to occur? Isn't that what they want?

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#16

Post by pfranz »

reallydontask wrote: post #3
hyko wrote: post #2

“The Dropbox app for Macintosh...” seems like a very lame overreach.

The way you mention this, it makes it sound as if this is the worst that Apple does. Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps. End of the day it's your decision whether you want to still use an Apple device, assuming you have the choice, after knowing the potential problems with it.

But this wasn't "allowed" or endorsed by Apple. It was a third-party company doing something underhanded. Is there some reason Dropbox would be more trustworthy on Linux?

I think the "lame overreach" hurts the credibility of the argument--even if it has merit.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#17

Post by cmsj »

kotutku wrote: post #6

"Apple plans to require that all application software for MacOS be approved by Apple first." I'm ready to leave MacOS if this becomes reality (no way to install apps outside of Apple Store). So so far it's pretty easy to install custom apps and grand them root permissions.

There's no "if", notarization has already happened. As of a few months ago, macOS Catalina warns users if an app hasn't been notarized.

It's the latest step in a multi-year effort to make macOS a little less of a wild-west of software, but as with all the previous steps, it's pretty trivial for knowledgeable users to override - you just right click on an app and choose "Open" and you can bypass the signature/notarization checks.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#18

Post by systemvoltage »

new_realist wrote: post #12

Please, no more propaganda from GNU. It’s biased and misleading. I get the feeling that they had the budget to buy fake news on Facebook, they would jump at the chance. They’re the Breitbart of fundamentalist software proselytism.

Instead of being humble, they’re seeing the world as their way or the highway. It’s incredibly naive, arrogant and inconsiderate.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#19

Post by systemvoltage »

cmsj wrote: post #14
systemvoltage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget security. Linux laptops are a gaping hole compared to my MacBook Pro. I really despise some of the open source crusaders that look the other way when things don’t fit their narrative. Common tools such as Postgres, Swift, Python, OpenSSH, billion other pieces of open software that are funded by the same companies that this article shits on. There is a place for proprietary software in the society. And th…

Let's be very clear, this is from gnu.org, so this is not "open source crusaders", this is "free software zealots". There are no compromises when it comes to Free Software, no pragmatism and no leeway for choices to be made that serve a purpose if they reduce the freedom of the software. I am not explicitly criticising GNU/FSF, but I think it's important to remember that they are always going to take the most extreme…

It provokes me so much. This is a horrible organization and a message for the open source community.

MIT license > GPL which is a draconian piece of work.

Linux needs a pragmatic, less asshole, more inclusive and approachable community.

GNU guys aren’t helping.

Re: How Apple's operating systems mistreat the user

#20

Post by systemvoltage »

pfranz wrote: post #16
reallydontask wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you mention this, it makes it sound as if this is the worst that Apple does. Another way of looking at it, is that if it's allowed for dropbox it could be allowed for other apps. End of the day it's your decision whether you want to still use an Apple device, assuming you have the choice, after knowing the potential problems with it.

But this wasn't "allowed" or endorsed by Apple. It was a third-party company doing something underhanded. Is there some reason Dropbox would be more trustworthy on Linux? I think the "lame overreach" hurts the credibility of the argument--even if it has merit.

Exactly. Does Linux not have a crap piece of software sending data to Amazon servers? Oh right. Ubuntu.
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