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The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

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Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#21

Post by gipp »

manicdee wrote: post #3

Clearly it was the CDC at fault here, not a few hand picked bureaucrats, not the chain of command, not a president with a penchant for firing people who challenge his authority. What a poorly concocted article. The least the author could do so remind people of the “starve the beast” approach to public utilities that the Republicans have been pursuing for decades. Nope, we’ll just throw the entire CDC under a bus.

There's this strange phenomenon on HN sometimes -- or at least I've noticed it here several times -- where people will somehow manage to condemn the article while arguing for exactly the thesis of the article. That's what you're doing here.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#22

Post by icegreentea2 »

vikramkr wrote: post #5

Over the past few years a series of American agencies have lost their reputation and world standing. The FAA with the 737 max, the CDC with the test, the FDA with testing regulation and hydroxychloroquine. Its important to have institutions that work, but we've spent years deliberately gutting them and undervaluing them. All that money spent on the military and homeland security, and in the end we were caught utterly…

I think you'd make a stronger argument by instead of making a military or other things argument, and just make a 'fund other things more' argument.

The reason I think you should stay away from pointing fingers, especially at a relatively divisive issue like military or especially aircraft carrier funding is because then you shift a question of "should American be world leading in commercial air travel regulation, pandemic prevention and control, and medical development" to a far more complex one of what America's role in the world should be.

The combined CDC, FDA and FAA budget is something like 35 billion dollars a year. Overall DOD budget is is nearly 700 billion, making up nearly half of annual discretionary spending (roughly 1.5 trillion). You could literally double the funding of those three agencies and barely budge the overall calculus of the budget.

Edit/Add-on: I think the whole sub-thread under my comment (my bad =/ - I get the irony...) is an example of the types of distractions that might be avoidable if you don't scope military spending into discussions.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#23

Post by ashtonkem »

vikramkr wrote: post #18
ibarea277 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data we have on hydroxychloroquine is now convincingly negative-there's just a ton of misinformation and it's become a political issue. But when some institutions fail you get widespread mistrust of both institutions and experts, which maybe is part of the compounding problem.

The hydroxychloroquine study I'm referring to has less to do with the data and more to do with how the FDA behaves regarding the drug, where they gave the drug an emergency use authorization based off of what seemed like pretty blatant interference from the executive branch. If the drug had ended up working, maybe their reputation would have taken less of a hit, but that wouldn't have changed how inappropriate that a…

It’s another in a very long line of mistakes over the past three years pointing towards one thing: process matters. It’s boring, it’s not dynamic, but it’s also the thing that prevents organizations from making some extremely bone headed mistakes.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#24

Post by chasing »

At the moment we're well beyond the CDC. We have a President and his various acolyte governors who have so utterly botched and politicized our COVID-19 response that many people won't take the most basic steps to protect themselves and those around them. It's maddening and leaves those of us who are trying to do the right thing feel totally unprotected and unsupported, especially in states like Texas and Florida.

The CDC may have made missteps, but there's no way it can possibly operate as well as it should in this political climate.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#25

Post by ransom1538 »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #22
vikramkr wrote: post #5

Over the past few years a series of American agencies have lost their reputation and world standing. The FAA with the 737 max, the CDC with the test, the FDA with testing regulation and hydroxychloroquine. Its important to have institutions that work, but we've spent years deliberately gutting them and undervaluing them. All that money spent on the military and homeland security, and in the end we were caught utterly…

I think you'd make a stronger argument by instead of making a military or other things argument, and just make a 'fund other things more' argument. The reason I think you should stay away from pointing fingers, especially at a relatively divisive issue like military or especially aircraft carrier funding is because then you shift a question of "should American be world leading in commercial air travel regulation, pan…

I love this "half of annual discretionary spending". It is designed to confuse the fact that military spending is only %15. [1]

https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/the-facts-on-medica...

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#26

Post by Robotbeat »

vikramkr wrote: post #18
ibarea277 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data we have on hydroxychloroquine is now convincingly negative-there's just a ton of misinformation and it's become a political issue. But when some institutions fail you get widespread mistrust of both institutions and experts, which maybe is part of the compounding problem.

The hydroxychloroquine study I'm referring to has less to do with the data and more to do with how the FDA behaves regarding the drug, where they gave the drug an emergency use authorization based off of what seemed like pretty blatant interference from the executive branch. If the drug had ended up working, maybe their reputation would have taken less of a hit, but that wouldn't have changed how inappropriate that a…

There was some early evidence it could be effective. I’m actually supportive of the FDA’s move to do both the emergency approval and the retraction. Without the ability to take calculated risks in a situation where either approving or unapproving can cause harm, the agency could be a hindrance more than a help. And that means some emergency measures will prove wrong. If none prove wrong, the agency is being too cautious and allowing people to die because of it.

EDIT: I hate the politicization of HCQ by Trump, of course.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#27

Post by StavrosK »

gipp wrote: post #21
manicdee wrote: post #3

Clearly it was the CDC at fault here, not a few hand picked bureaucrats, not the chain of command, not a president with a penchant for firing people who challenge his authority. What a poorly concocted article. The least the author could do so remind people of the “starve the beast” approach to public utilities that the Republicans have been pursuing for decades. Nope, we’ll just throw the entire CDC under a bus.

There's this strange phenomenon on HN sometimes -- or at least I've noticed it here several times -- where people will somehow manage to condemn the article while arguing for exactly the thesis of the article . That's what you're doing here.

That's what happens when people don't actually read the article before they comment.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#30

Post by cityofdelusion »

The pandemic has done a great job of highlighting weaknesses inherit to democratic governments. Populism and demagoguery, combined with rewarding loyalty and punishing dissidents. A dysfunctional democratic republic isn’t very different from an autocracy. I suspect during times like this it might even weaker, since you end up with no national unity. You can’t deal with a pandemic effectively in this kind of political environment.
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