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Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

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21–30 of 164 posts

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#21
The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm

Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship?

Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#22
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

Because pushing/ramming a bigger ship (especially if you do little damage) is more in the realm of the kind of bullying that gets tolerated by other countries than firing on a civilian ship with a heavy gun. It appears they misjudged the "little damage" part.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#23
This is insane. I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this.

It's one thing if the shooting is already started to defend yourself. But even if this stunt had worked, you're looking at many months of downtime while your ship is being repaired in drydock. Millions of dollars, and bigtime loss of capability for a small navy.

Unless you are an icebreaker, you just don't intentionally hit anything (tugboats nudge after gently making contact, they do not ram).

If this cruise liner was not following instructions (seems more like an act of piracy than legit, but that is another discussion), then you fire a shot or two off the bow of the offending ship. That usually gets people's attention.

Ramming? WTF?

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#24
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

They weren't trying to sink the cruise ship, they were trying to turn their tiny destroyer into a tugboat and push the cruise ship into a port where it could be seized.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#25
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

TFA claims the navy vessel was attempting to steer the larger ship. It at least answers your question, but raises more questions ...

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#26
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

Those shells will do nothing to stop the ship but will just kill a lot of people for no gains. If they wanted to seize the ship, they should have brought a boarding party with them, I'm sure they have trained sailors for that.

Source: I'm a former naval officer and I served as an ordnance officer on a ship with that exact 76mm gun. I also acted as the officer of the deck for quite a few boardings.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#27
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

They were trying to steer the cruise not destroy it , but didn't expect a reinforced hull.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#28
post #14

Since the US is currently trying to invade Venezuela under the guise of the fight against drugs trafficking I understand Venezuelans being more strict with their borders and would not diacard it being a setup.

If the US wanted to invade, apparently we could do it with a handful of cruise ships. Why send carriers when Carnival will do?

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, sailors have strong ethics because the sea is the common enemy of all. Even sailors on ships at war will rescue the enemy after incapacitating their boat.

Yeah, but if you're a ship with a skeleton crew of civilians, you're going to think twice about rescuing a full compliment of soldiers from a dictatorship that just tried to sink you with no reason whatsoever.

There can not be any thinking twice about pulling people from the water. Even Somali pirates were first pulled up from their junks, and only then the boats were used for target practice.

EDIT: and they, being pirates, were subject to being killed on the spot.

But still, the whole situation is hilarious.

Re: Venezuelan ship sinks itself after ramming cruise liner with a reinforced hull

#30
post #21

The Venezuelan ship had a 76mm gun, maybe one like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm Why would you ram when you could shoot up the other ship with 85 to 120 fourteen pound shells per minute, with no risk to your own ship? Maybe they didn't actually have the ammo. Or maybe they decided to play chicken with the cruise ship and lost.

They weren't trying to sink the cruise ship, they were trying to turn their tiny destroyer into a tugboat and push the cruise ship into a port where it could be seized.

Piracy then.
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