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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#21

Post by dmitriid »

emteycz wrote: post #15
kalium_xyz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislation (at least ones like this) are not implemented thoughtlessly. Its likely that just allowing parts which have a short service life to be replaced would be enough. Also anything which is structural is likely not going to be the part which maintenance needs to be done on

Would you say GDPR and cookie laws were implemented thoughtfully? (not asking if the laws themself are thoughtless)

GDPR was.

Unfortunately there hasn't been any significant follow through yet.

Yep. All those dark pattern cookie banners are illegal under GDPR.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#22

Post by simion314 »

TomMarius wrote: post #9
simion314 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-waste is a problem that affect everyone. Also I edited my answer to add the DRM and copyright on the manuals issues.

And how exactly does this change the fashion of buying the latest iPhone-looking phone every second year? The older devices are perfectly functioning, they just don't look like the owners wish. Most people I know have a drawer full of 100% working phones, some broken displays here and there but that is trivial to have repaired today.

Don't iPhone look very similar? why do people need a new one? There are probably many answers depending on person, some just want latest and greatest, some people were affected by the battery issue(while it was hidden from them), some people break the phone and don't have an Apple store near or don't have the time to wait for a repair and they get a new phone. Sometimes the updates make the old phones slow or incompatible and websites and applications are pushing you to buy a new one.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#23

Post by gpderetta »

firbrook wrote: post #6

I hope this doesn't result in a GDPR-like effect, but for phones instead of websites: "We're sorry, but iPhones aren't available in your region" followed by a redirect to google.com

On the contrary, see Brussel Effect[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#24

Post by simion314 »

emteycz wrote: post #15
kalium_xyz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislation (at least ones like this) are not implemented thoughtlessly. Its likely that just allowing parts which have a short service life to be replaced would be enough. Also anything which is structural is likely not going to be the part which maintenance needs to be done on

Would you say GDPR and cookie laws were implemented thoughtfully? (not asking if the laws themself are thoughtless)

The cookie problem we have is because the sites are actually tracking you m so maybe they should have forced to say "We are tracking you, please accept". Coockies used for actual technical reasons like to store a session ID do not need warnings. GDPR improved on that by forcing the websites to show me what are collecting and with who are sharing the data. I like this transparency, if you want to track me then tell me the details and I will decide if I visit your page or maybe find a different one.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#25

Post by rndgermandude »

TomMarius wrote: post #2

What if I want to buy a device that is impossible to repair due to e.g. being inside metal/ceramics/glass?

Then you'll be out of luck. Same as you cannot legally buy leaded fuels in most countries anymore, even tho you might prefer them, and same as Bayer will not sell you Heroin(tm) to treat your cough anymore.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#27

Post by fastball »

rndgermandude wrote: post #25
TomMarius wrote: post #2

What if I want to buy a device that is impossible to repair due to e.g. being inside metal/ceramics/glass?

Then you'll be out of luck. Same as you cannot legally buy leaded fuels in most countries anymore, even tho you might prefer them, and same as Bayer will not sell you Heroin(tm) to treat your cough anymore.

Wait so you think you should not be allowed to buy "unrepairable" devices?

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#28

Post by JoshTriplett »

simion314 wrote: post #18
JoshTriplett wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals . I certainly think that you should have the absolute right to attempt to repair your device, and you shouldn't be legally prevented from doing so. On the other hand, I would like a sec…

The idea is not that you should be able to swap your battery as easy as you can with an Nokia 3310 but that you or a competent person could swap the battery with tools made for that purpose. Also I should have the right to use components from a broken iPhone into a different broken iPhone so I get a working iPhone(and if you claim security then wipe the phone before you allow this swap).

> The idea is not that you should be able to swap your battery as easy as you can with an Nokia 3310 but that you or a competent person could swap the battery with tools made for that purpose.

On many modern devices, you don't have "a battery", you have battery cells fit into every available space and wired together. You're certainly welcome to try replacing those. I just don't want to see that reverted to a discrete battery design.

> Also I should have the right to use components from a broken iPhone into a different broken iPhone so I get a working iPhone

By all means! And "components" here may well mean "single integrated board", as it does on many laptops and phones.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#29

Post by simongray »

TomMarius wrote: post #17
rat9988 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a society we have to make choices. We prefer having repairable items over beautiful unrepairable ones, as the latter has been abused as an excuse to deny repairability even when possible.

Do we? I am not really sure we do. I think it's very hard to talk about what "the society" wants, and I know that it differs very much around 150 km to the north from me (where the border is) and that it is also roughly the opposite around 300 km to the south from me (where another border is).

> I think it's very hard to talk about what "the society" wants

People vote for representatives, those representatives enact legislation, and the free press reports on it, causing a feedback effect. Over time we have a picture of what society wants. It's really not that hard.

Obviously, there are many different interconnected societies in the world and not all of them have representative democracy or a free press. Maybe that was your objection?

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#30

Post by playfool »

TomMarius wrote: post #5
simion314 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want to buy a car that has no lights,breaks and pollutes 100x more then the norms? There are many hardened phones that are repairable. Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

I was not talking about hardened phones, quite the opposite, a pure design item, so small and precise that any breakage of the shell could destroy it - that's the current direction of the market, which I like very much. Who exactly will I hurt with my phone, and when exactly is it going to gain around 1 metric ton and be hurtling down a highway? Since when is it fashionable to justify regulation with completely unrel…

It was a metaphor for how things are wrong in the grand scheme of things even if they are possible and available. Repairability of things makes for less waste, if you ignore that fact and knowingly buy a phone which is going to end up in a bin after 2 years with no possibility to get proper recycling and repairing, you have a similar mindset to the SUV buying bunch. That is what he is trying to say (I think).
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