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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#11

Post by JoshTriplett »

simion314 wrote: post #4
TomMarius wrote: post #2

What if I want to buy a device that is impossible to repair due to e.g. being inside metal/ceramics/glass?

What if I want to buy a car that has no lights,breaks and pollutes 100x more then the norms? There are many hardened phones that are repairable. Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

> Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

I certainly think that you should have the absolute right to attempt to repair your device, and you shouldn't be legally prevented from doing so.

On the other hand, I would like a secure, lightweight device, which lasts as long as possible on battery. All of those things will suffer if people who don't understand how modern phones achieve those things attempt to force them to be made up of piecewise-replaceable components.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#12

Post by simion314 »

firbrook wrote: post #6

I hope this doesn't result in a GDPR-like effect, but for phones instead of websites: "We're sorry, but iPhones aren't available in your region" followed by a redirect to google.com

Right to repair will eventually appear in US too. Also what will your customer think that you won't sell to him unless you sigh off the right to repair your broken phone (Apple will not repair simple issues instead replacing your phone, this is a waste considering that some smart people can open the device and fix it if allowed)

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#13

Post by rat9988 »

TomMarius wrote: post #5
simion314 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want to buy a car that has no lights,breaks and pollutes 100x more then the norms? There are many hardened phones that are repairable. Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

I was not talking about hardened phones, quite the opposite, a pure design item, so small and precise that any breakage of the shell could destroy it - that's the current direction of the market, which I like very much. Who exactly will I hurt with my phone, and when exactly is it going to gain around 1 metric ton and be hurtling down a highway? Since when is it fashionable to justify regulation with completely unrel…

As a society we have to make choices. We prefer having repairable items over beautiful unrepairable ones, as the latter has been abused as an excuse to deny repairability even when possible.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#14

Post by nolok »

firbrook wrote: post #6

I hope this doesn't result in a GDPR-like effect, but for phones instead of websites: "We're sorry, but iPhones aren't available in your region" followed by a redirect to google.com

Given the size of the european market and the median wealth in it, it won't. And if it did, someone else would quickly come to replace whoever left.

Companies don't follow all those regulation for the fun of it, they do it because there is a lot more money to gain by doing it than by leaving that market.

Also if other jurisdiction don't follow on that (or on GDPR too, while we're at it) I don't know how they explain it to their citizens. We european are not magical people, we just tend to remember a bit more that our govs and laws are there by our authority, and to serve our needs.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#15

Post by emteycz »

kalium_xyz wrote: post #8
TomMarius wrote: post #2

What if I want to buy a device that is impossible to repair due to e.g. being inside metal/ceramics/glass?

The legislation (at least ones like this) are not implemented thoughtlessly. Its likely that just allowing parts which have a short service life to be replaced would be enough. Also anything which is structural is likely not going to be the part which maintenance needs to be done on

Would you say GDPR and cookie laws were implemented thoughtfully? (not asking if the laws themself are thoughtless)

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#17

Post by TomMarius »

rat9988 wrote: post #13
TomMarius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not talking about hardened phones, quite the opposite, a pure design item, so small and precise that any breakage of the shell could destroy it - that's the current direction of the market, which I like very much. Who exactly will I hurt with my phone, and when exactly is it going to gain around 1 metric ton and be hurtling down a highway? Since when is it fashionable to justify regulation with completely unrel…

As a society we have to make choices. We prefer having repairable items over beautiful unrepairable ones, as the latter has been abused as an excuse to deny repairability even when possible.

Do we? I am not really sure we do. I think it's very hard to talk about what "the society" wants, and I know that it differs very much around 150 km to the north from me (where the border is) and that it is also roughly the opposite around 300 km to the south from me (where another border is).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#18

Post by simion314 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #11
simion314 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want to buy a car that has no lights,breaks and pollutes 100x more then the norms? There are many hardened phones that are repairable. Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

> Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals . I certainly think that you should have the absolute right to attempt to repair your device, and you shouldn't be legally prevented from doing so. On the other hand, I would like a sec…

The idea is not that you should be able to swap your battery as easy as you can with an Nokia 3310 but that you or a competent person could swap the battery with tools made for that purpose. Also I should have the right to use components from a broken iPhone into a different broken iPhone so I get a working iPhone(and if you claim security then wipe the phone before you allow this swap).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#19

Post by rndgermandude »

firbrook wrote: post #6

I hope this doesn't result in a GDPR-like effect, but for phones instead of websites: "We're sorry, but iPhones aren't available in your region" followed by a redirect to google.com

I have seen very few sites actually doing this. The only one I remember is Chicago Tribune, and I cannot remember any site where I didn't just shrug and move on.

Also, Apple in particular cannot really afford to leave the EU. About 23% of their profits were generated in the EU in 2019. Other big names are in essentially the same boat.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#20

Post by rndgermandude »

emteycz wrote: post #15
kalium_xyz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislation (at least ones like this) are not implemented thoughtlessly. Its likely that just allowing parts which have a short service life to be replaced would be enough. Also anything which is structural is likely not going to be the part which maintenance needs to be done on

Would you say GDPR and cookie laws were implemented thoughtfully? (not asking if the laws themself are thoughtless)

Yes on GDPR, no on cookie laws.
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