How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#21

Post by close04 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

jtdev wrote: post #7

“ Philadelphia had scheduled a big Liberty Loan parade for September 28. Doctors urged Krusen to cancel it, fearful that hundreds of thousands jamming the route, crushing against each other for a better view, would spread disease. They convinced reporters to write stories about the danger. But editors refused to run them, and refused to print letters from doctors. The largest parade in Philadelphia’s history proceede…

For the USA at least, wouldn't imposing a ban rather than a recommendation be a violation of the Constitutional right to freedom of assembly?

Aren’t some authorizations still needed to organize larger events? I think that’s the ban, no more concerts, sold out football matches, etc.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#22

Post by howmayiannoyyou » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

I fear we are going to regret not taking draconian measures right now. Mandatory social distancing right now likely could buy additional time for the healthcare system to advance preparations for a wide scale outbreak, including stockpiling additional PPE and advancing triage procedures. It provides valuable time for drug & medical device manufacturers to ramp up production of needed supplies and drugs that should be proved effective in a few days or weeks. A 14 - 30 hold would do disproportionate good over potential damage.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#23

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

jtdev wrote: post #7

“ Philadelphia had scheduled a big Liberty Loan parade for September 28. Doctors urged Krusen to cancel it, fearful that hundreds of thousands jamming the route, crushing against each other for a better view, would spread disease. They convinced reporters to write stories about the danger. But editors refused to run them, and refused to print letters from doctors. The largest parade in Philadelphia’s history proceede…

For the USA at least, wouldn't imposing a ban rather than a recommendation be a violation of the Constitutional right to freedom of assembly?

SCOTUS has repeatedly recognized quarantine as an exception.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#24

Post by lostlogin » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

LeoTinnitus wrote: post #14

danso wrote: post #6

I read this article a few weeks ago when I fell down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out why the Spanish Flu was called the "Spanish Flu". I knew it didn't originate from Spain, but hadn't heard that the traditional consensus is that it likely started in Kansas, owing to the first detected case being in Kansas. The CDC has a variety of history pages [0] about the Spanish Flu. The main one acknowledges that there…

I heard it was called it because the Spanish were the only ones reporting it during the war.

This is what the article says.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#25

Post by PopePompus » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

jtdev wrote: post #7

“ Philadelphia had scheduled a big Liberty Loan parade for September 28. Doctors urged Krusen to cancel it, fearful that hundreds of thousands jamming the route, crushing against each other for a better view, would spread disease. They convinced reporters to write stories about the danger. But editors refused to run them, and refused to print letters from doctors. The largest parade in Philadelphia’s history proceede…

For the USA at least, wouldn't imposing a ban rather than a recommendation be a violation of the Constitutional right to freedom of assembly?

If the CDC merely urged that all large gatherings be cancelled, that would probably result in the cancellation of 95% of them, with no constitutional implications.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#26

Post by lcfcjs2 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

Did they have an incompetent President then too?

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#27

Post by cletus » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

jtdev wrote: post #7

“ Philadelphia had scheduled a big Liberty Loan parade for September 28. Doctors urged Krusen to cancel it, fearful that hundreds of thousands jamming the route, crushing against each other for a better view, would spread disease. They convinced reporters to write stories about the danger. But editors refused to run them, and refused to print letters from doctors. The largest parade in Philadelphia’s history proceede…

For the USA at least, wouldn't imposing a ban rather than a recommendation be a violation of the Constitutional right to freedom of assembly?

It’s really unfortunate that the word “right” is used here because no “right” is absolute.

Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can falsely yell “active shooter” in a crowded theater.

Freedom to bear arms doesn’t mean you’re allowed to own nuclear weapon or a surface to air missile battery.

Freedom of assembly doesn’t mean you can go where you want, when you want.

Other needs and limits can preempt these “rights” so they’re not really right at all.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#28

Post by mbreese » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

devy wrote: post #9

This article was from November 2017, can the mod put a year tag in the title?

I agree and think that in this case, the (2017) year is an important distinction. It helps to emphasize that this is not a story written with our current fears in mind. But rather, it is an unbiased look at what happened during the spread of the 1918 flu pandemic. And there are lessons to be learned.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#29

Post by jtdev » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

jtdev wrote: post #7

“ Philadelphia had scheduled a big Liberty Loan parade for September 28. Doctors urged Krusen to cancel it, fearful that hundreds of thousands jamming the route, crushing against each other for a better view, would spread disease. They convinced reporters to write stories about the danger. But editors refused to run them, and refused to print letters from doctors. The largest parade in Philadelphia’s history proceede…

To add a little context: I’m currently scheduled to attend a ~50000 attendee international conference in the U.S. My employer has sponsored - and I’m not in a position to refuse to attend (yet). The host org is standing firm on pushing forward as scheduled, but has released a bunch of PR B.S. communications about hand sanitizer, face masks, etc. being provided and quarantine of symptomatic individuals at the event (not sure how they’re going to swing that). I’m not in the age demographic for high mortality from COVID19, but I’m concerned that I might pick it up and bring it back to my home community - where there are people in the high mortality demo. It seems that a neutral third party (CDC???) should step in and say “we’re recommending that this event be canceled”. Which would make it much easier on all to simply not attend if the event does in fact go forward.

Re: How the 1918 Flu Spread Across America (2017)

#30

Post by bcrosby95 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #13

For those of you reading this from the bay area, we already have suspected community transmission 50 miles away, in a town with a lot of people who commute to the Bay. If it's easy for you to work from home, consider doing so, giving explicit permission to your reports to do so, and asking your manager to give permission to their reports to do so. We're fortunate to be in an industry where WFH has relatively little c…

I'm not sure why officials haven't come out suggesting things like this. And to avoid non-mandatory travel.

It's probably a bit late for this stuff from a containment perspective. But it would help reduce the r0.

Speaking personally, I have to decide by mid March if we should take our trip to Legoland in San Diego. Right now I'm leaning towards "no". And I don't imagine the outlook will be much better in just 2 weeks.