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Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

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Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#21

Post by toomuchtodo »

liability wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes all participation is equal. This is not the case. It’s GitLab’s sandbox, their rules (including not being crass if desired). How is this different than what would be expected with a Code of Conduct? Must one call out “Don’t be a dick”? Vigorous debate is to be expected, being rude is not.

Gitlab is well within the right to ban rude remarks on their platform, but that isn't the same as regulating the open source community as a whole, which they have neither the right nor ability to do.

They have the right to regulate any activity taking place on any forum or digital property they control.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#22

Post by dijit »

dsissitka wrote: post #14
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

Here's a screenshot for people that don't feel like waiting for the page to load: https://imgur.com/a/uxaU0h8 How is GitLab still this slow?

It’s probably hammering the database right now.

These kind of things, by nature, are difficult to cache because the balance between “fresh” new content and how often they are accessed leans heavily towards having it served from the backend directly.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#23

Post by swagonomixxx »

dsissitka wrote: post #14
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

Here's a screenshot for people that don't feel like waiting for the page to load: https://imgur.com/a/uxaU0h8 How is GitLab still this slow?

Ruby on Rails backend, I think.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#24

Post by liability »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21
liability wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gitlab is well within the right to ban rude remarks on their platform, but that isn't the same as regulating the open source community as a whole, which they have neither the right nor ability to do.

They have the right to regulate any activity taking place on any forum or digital property they control.

Obviously. The matter I am concerned with is the attitude that anybody is empowered to regulate the 'open source culture', which is worlds apart from regulating one particular forum.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#25

Post by amyjess »

liability wrote: post #13
zapita wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not? For example, I don't see anyone stepping up in that github thread and saying that insults and middle finger emojis are not OK. That's because that behavior is normalized. Participants in the thread either a) are OK with it; b) have resigned themselves to it; c) are refraining from speaking up for fear of being attacked too. That is what I mean by "allowed to happen"…

What would it mean for me to 'not allow' other members of a free society to speak their mind? Your right to criticize it and their right to say it are one and the same. Criticizing it and not permitting it are not the same thing.

Loud condemnation from the wider community. Contact their employers. Ban them from contributing to projects.

When GamerGate became a thing, every major publication and several major figures in the gaming community all loudly spoke out against the harassment, and many prominent Gamergaters permanently gained reputations as harassers.

Not only do we need this kind of condemnation from leaders within the open-source community, but we need to go farther. We need open-source projects to say "we will not accept any contributions from anyone who participates in harassing GitLab employees", and if they work for a large corporation who's paying them to work on open-source code (e.g. Red Hat, Google), then contact their employers and convince them to cut ties. If you participate in harassment campaigns and sustained personal attacks against private individuals over a policy disagreement, then you should have no place in the community.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#26

Post by badloginagain »

zapita wrote: post #9
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

The reactions came after the comment was widely publicized. With wide publication comes the trolls. The original comment was thoroughly thumbs-down, but the only ones interacting were people who actually use/follow the product.

How any C level position blindly walks into this kind of thing in a post Cambridge-Analytica world is a different conversation.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#27

Post by jbk »

We received an apology email at the same time, well written, explaining what they did wrong, apologizing, promising to do a post-mortem, promising to not send to 3rd party trackers, and saying they did a mistake and waiting for feedbacks on the issue tracker. And with very little BS in the mail.

Such level of transparency, of apologizing and clarity, especially written at the first person "I am truly sorry." is very rare and should be praised.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#28

Post by ddevault »

zapita wrote: post #9
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

When a C-level fundamentally misunderstands the company's culture and the culture of their target audience, incompotence becomes presumable and maliciousness becomes possible, IMO.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#29

Post by stingraycharles »

zapita wrote: post #11
liability wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is allowed to be." 'Allowed' to be? The "open source culture" is the sum of the participants and participation is open to the general public. If being rude were "not allowed" who would be doing the not allowing and why should they be so empowered over members of the general public?

And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not? For example, I don't see anyone stepping up in that github thread and saying that insults and middle finger emojis are not OK. That's because that behavior is normalized. Participants in the thread either a) are OK with it; b) have resigned themselves to it; c) are refraining from speaking up for fear of being attacked too. That is what I mean by "allowed to happen"…

> And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not?

We don't just allow it, it appears that a vocal part even encourages it. It's toxic and unprofessional behavior, but organizations have no choice but to listen (as evidenced by Gitlab's response).

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#30

Post by liability »

amyjess wrote: post #25
liability wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it mean for me to 'not allow' other members of a free society to speak their mind? Your right to criticize it and their right to say it are one and the same. Criticizing it and not permitting it are not the same thing.

Loud condemnation from the wider community. Contact their employers. Ban them from contributing to projects. When GamerGate became a thing, every major publication and several major figures in the gaming community all loudly spoke out against the harassment, and many prominent Gamergaters permanently gained reputations as harassers. Not only do we need this kind of condemnation from leaders within the open-source com…

You're well within your right to write letters to companies complaining that they employ people who use emojis of rude gestures online. What you don't have the right or ability to do is forbid rude behavior in the culture, rather than on a given platform.
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