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Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

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Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#11

Post by zapita »

liability wrote: post #10
zapita wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

> "It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is allowed to be." 'Allowed' to be? The "open source culture" is the sum of the participants and participation is open to the general public. If being rude were "not allowed" who would be doing the not allowing and why should they be so empowered over members of the general public?

And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not?

For example, I don't see anyone stepping up in that github thread and saying that insults and middle finger emojis are not OK. That's because that behavior is normalized. Participants in the thread either a) are OK with it; b) have resigned themselves to it; c) are refraining from speaking up for fear of being attacked too. That is what I mean by "allowed to happen".

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#12

Post by toomuchtodo »

liability wrote: post #10
zapita wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

> "It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is allowed to be." 'Allowed' to be? The "open source culture" is the sum of the participants and participation is open to the general public. If being rude were "not allowed" who would be doing the not allowing and why should they be so empowered over members of the general public?

This assumes all participation is equal. This is not the case. It’s GitLab’s sandbox, their rules (including not being crass if desired).

How is this different than what would be expected with a Code of Conduct? Must one call out “Don’t be a dick”? Vigorous debate is to be expected, being rude is not.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#13

Post by liability »

zapita wrote: post #11
liability wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is allowed to be." 'Allowed' to be? The "open source culture" is the sum of the participants and participation is open to the general public. If being rude were "not allowed" who would be doing the not allowing and why should they be so empowered over members of the general public?

And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not? For example, I don't see anyone stepping up in that github thread and saying that insults and middle finger emojis are not OK. That's because that behavior is normalized. Participants in the thread either a) are OK with it; b) have resigned themselves to it; c) are refraining from speaking up for fear of being attacked too. That is what I mean by "allowed to happen"…

What would it mean for me to 'not allow' other members of a free society to speak their mind?

Your right to criticize it and their right to say it are one and the same. Criticizing it and not permitting it are not the same thing.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#14

Post by dsissitka »

tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

Here's a screenshot for people that don't feel like waiting for the page to load:

https://imgur.com/a/uxaU0h8

How is GitLab still this slow?

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#15

Post by bachmeier »

zapita wrote: post #9
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

"At this point I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would go to the trouble of making their product open-source. It's just not worth it."

Umm...that's their business model. It's not an act of generosity. It was a decision that they thought was in their best interest.

Do you also think Facebook and Google are making their products free out of the goodness of their hearts?

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#16

Post by zapita »

liability wrote: post #13
zapita wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we collectively allow this behavior. Do we not? For example, I don't see anyone stepping up in that github thread and saying that insults and middle finger emojis are not OK. That's because that behavior is normalized. Participants in the thread either a) are OK with it; b) have resigned themselves to it; c) are refraining from speaking up for fear of being attacked too. That is what I mean by "allowed to happen"…

What would it mean for me to 'not allow' other members of a free society to speak their mind? Your right to criticize it and their right to say it are one and the same. Criticizing it and not permitting it are not the same thing.

If you are participant of the Gitlab community, you could speak up in that thread and say that you are not OK with people being insulted over a disagreement. I won't fault you for not wanting to, though. You would probably be attacked too, and have to spend a few hours of your life justifying yourself.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#17

Post by liability »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
liability wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is allowed to be." 'Allowed' to be? The "open source culture" is the sum of the participants and participation is open to the general public. If being rude were "not allowed" who would be doing the not allowing and why should they be so empowered over members of the general public?

This assumes all participation is equal. This is not the case. It’s GitLab’s sandbox, their rules (including not being crass if desired). How is this different than what would be expected with a Code of Conduct? Must one call out “Don’t be a dick”? Vigorous debate is to be expected, being rude is not.

Gitlab is well within the right to ban rude remarks on their platform, but that isn't the same as regulating the open source community as a whole, which they have neither the right nor ability to do.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#18

Post by liability »

zapita wrote: post #16
liability wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it mean for me to 'not allow' other members of a free society to speak their mind? Your right to criticize it and their right to say it are one and the same. Criticizing it and not permitting it are not the same thing.

If you are participant of the Gitlab community, you could speak up in that thread and say that you are not OK with people being insulted over a disagreement. I won't fault you for not wanting to, though. You would probably be attacked too, and have to spend a few hours of your life justifying yourself.

There is a keen difference between criticizing it and forbidding it. Gitlab may forbid it on their platform, but they don't have the ability, let alone right, to regulate the speech of the general public outside their platform.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#19

Post by zapita »

bachmeier wrote: post #15
zapita wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

"At this point I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would go to the trouble of making their product open-source. It's just not worth it." Umm...that's their business model. It's not an act of generosity. It was a decision that they thought was in their best interest. Do you also think Facebook and Google are making their products free out of the goodness of their hearts?

I don't believe I said anything about their motives.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#20

Post by badrequest »

dsissitka wrote: post #14
tyteen4a03 wrote: post #2

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

Here's a screenshot for people that don't feel like waiting for the page to load: https://imgur.com/a/uxaU0h8 How is GitLab still this slow?

It's a Rails app trying to load hundreds of different bits of data (emojis, comments, votes on comments, etc.), I'd honestly be more surprised if it were quick.
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