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A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

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21–30 of 34 posts

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#21
post #4

Also compare Heathrow Terminal 5 with Madrid Barajas latest terminal. Both designed by the same British architectural firm, Barajas took about half the time to build, cost less and is an uncompromised design.

I'm not sure how fair the cost comparison is. At the time, pretty much anything would have cost less in Spain - Britain was very expensive due to the high pound. A bit different now though.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#22
post #18

Heathrow is a mess. Everyone who travels regularly to southern England does everything they can to avoid it when flying. I don't know anything about this airport in Beijing. But comparing airports to Heathrow is just too easy. Any airport would look well managed compared to Heathrow.

I disagree, City's better if you're coming from Europe, but Heathrow still the best airport to get into London from anywhere else, especially Terminal 5. T5 had a lot of problems when it started, but now it's by far the best major airport terminal I've flown from. It takes me less than 15 minutes to get from the T5 tube station to sitting in the departure lounge waiting for boarding. It's almost as good as Eurostar.…

T5's not awful, or anything, except for one thing: power outlets, or, actually, the extreme lack thereof. There are very few places you can sit while simultaneously charging your laptop and keeping an eye on the departure board.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#23
post #3

The only real thing he studied in this comparison is rehearsal and timing. The British death marched to an unrealistically optimistic date while the Chinese were finished and testing long before the ship date. Socio-technical systems theory is interesting but he doesn't explain how the Chinese did this better. The Chinese aren't exactly known for empowering their workers.

s/he/she/

http://www.blogger.com/profile/01193243920681352112

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#24
post #21
post #4

Also compare Heathrow Terminal 5 with Madrid Barajas latest terminal. Both designed by the same British architectural firm, Barajas took about half the time to build, cost less and is an uncompromised design.

I'm not sure how fair the cost comparison is. At the time, pretty much anything would have cost less in Spain - Britain was very expensive due to the high pound. A bit different now though.

Heathrow was built at the peak of the UK housing boom - the stories of rates paid to electricians and plumbers at Heathrow made bankers blush.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#25
Last time I flew through Heathrow, I spent an hour and a half going from one gate to another, moving about on literally every kind of transport known to man except watercraft and spaceships. After flying in on an aircraft, I took some combination of train, bus, electric cart, another bus, I think another train, moving sidewalk, and at least one or two other things.

Nearly half of the transit time was spent inside some kind of vehicle in a dark tunnel, an industrial looking processing center, crawling around dimly lit stairwells, and or other such place that clearly said to me "you should not be seeing this stuff! Pay no attention to all this stuff behind the curtains!"

It was ridiculous and absurd and would have been humorous if I hadn't been in a mad dash the entire time trying to make my connection.

After escaping on yet another aircraft I mulled for quite a while over what kind of madness could have come up with such an absolutely insane way of moving from one part of a facility to another...a distance I could have crossed by foot in less than 15 minutes.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#26
The story is a good example of why these projects fail in the UK and the USA.

Leaving aside the staff problems - British Airports Authority (who run Heathrow) and the RMT (Rail maritime and Transport workers union) have a history of confrontation which makes the whole Isreali-Palestinian thing look like a family game of scrabble.

Just to pick one example, the software was left in debug mode. Everybody knew this but it took 3 days to find the person with the contractual permission to tell them to turn debugging off. Not for any technical reason but just because everything was done by such a mesh of semi-privatized companies, contractors, sub-contractors, outsourcers etc that nobody knew who was in charge.

The UK has just abandoned an ID card scheme setup by the previous government. It's costing 20m quid to just work out how has done what, and who is owed what in order to shut the project down.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#27
post #2

I found it weird that Deming wasn't mentioned anywhere in the second half of the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming for anyone who doesn't get the reference

His work was mainly concerned with manufacturing/production, but is still (I think) well worth reading

Edited to add Deming's Seven Deadly Diseases as I think they're worth quoting here for those who don't wish to read the entire wikipedia article

The "Seven Deadly Diseases" include:

  Lack of constancy of purpose
  Emphasis on short-term profits
  Evaluation by performance, merit rating, or annual review of performance
  Mobility of management
  Running a company on visible figures alone
  Excessive medical costs
  Excessive costs of warranty, fueled by lawyers who work for contingency fees
"A Lesser Category of Obstacles" includes

  Neglecting long-range planning
  Relying on technology to solve problems
  Seeking examples to follow rather than developing solutions
  Excuses, such as "our problems are different"
  Obsolescence in school that management skill can be taught in classes
  Reliance on quality control departments rather than management, supervisors, 
    managers of purchasing, and production workers
  Placing blame on workforces who are only responsible for 15% of mistakes where 
    the system desired by management is responsible for 85% of the unintended 
    consequences
  Relying on quality inspection rather than improving product quality

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#28
post #9

China is successful with these things because they have a large number of excess staff, and the staff are very obedient. Britain typically has too few staff, and the staff are very independent. A person who has been to a chinese restaurant in china will understand the difference.

I've lived in Beijing for years, and I have to say Chinese restaurant service is on the whole pretty horrible compared to restaurant service in societies with tipping.

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#29

Heathrow is a mess. Everyone who travels regularly to southern England does everything they can to avoid it when flying. I don't know anything about this airport in Beijing. But comparing airports to Heathrow is just too easy. Any airport would look well managed compared to Heathrow.

Never been to Heathrow, but flown in and out of BJ Terminal 3 many times. It looks nice and modern and feels comfortable, but I and everyone I know hate traveling through it. It's so fucking huge, it takes forever to get around. And it seems to have been laid out in a way that requires extra walking / tram-riding than necessary for the amount of air traffic. I always got the impression that it was specifically designed to convey a sense of grandiosity to foreigners first coming to China: "Wow, what a modern and epically large airport, this must really be a globally important city."

Re: A Tale of Two Terminals: Beijing Terminal 3 and Heathrow Terminal 5

#30
post #17
post #9

China is successful with these things because they have a large number of excess staff, and the staff are very obedient. Britain typically has too few staff, and the staff are very independent. A person who has been to a chinese restaurant in china will understand the difference.

Service industries in China can't be expected to be superior based on their personnel numbers alone. Cultural paradigms can produce good and bad results - as when poorly paid workers with no expectations of tips and customers accustomed to certain things lead to a custom where to summon waistaff all you can do is loudly yell '服务员'...

服务员 means "Waiter" - thank you Google Translate!
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