I thought it was interesting to that the report said no correlation was found between cameras and crime. But you dig a little deeper and it's "numbeo.com survey responses about crime". It also doesn't seem like they compared crime rates over time to see if the introduction of cameras did anything.
Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
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Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#22Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…
How deep was this list? I expect that places like Quantico Virginia might have more cameras. Quanitico has a population of around 500 people, but it right beside bases for the Army, FBI, DEA ... basically everyone that really really likes cameras.
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Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#23My first thought was: how is NYC not on this list since it has cameras on every block, and has for decades. And then I saw this: "Atlanta was the only place in the U.S. to crack the top ten, with 15.56 cameras per thousand residents." So they are looking at cameras per 1000 residents. This seems like the wrong way to count. If you point a camera at a block, you see everyone on that block whether there is one person o…
What matters more than the number of cameras is how/if the cameras are integrated. I don't much care that the local gas station has cameras tied to a 30-day DVR. I expect that. I don't expect them to be connected to facial-recognition AI, networked to the national police, and be feeding my movements into a citizenship score system that will impact my future job prospects.
While not networked to the national police I expect that many commercial security cameras do have facial recognition to identify suspected thieves and VIPs along with tracking movement habits through the store which is shared with advertisers and product manufactures to justify cost for higher profile shelf space.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#24I thought it was interesting to that the report said no correlation was found between cameras and crime. But you dig a little deeper and it's "numbeo.com survey responses about crime". It also doesn't seem like they compared crime rates over time to see if the introduction of cameras did anything.
Yeah - crime perception has to be the worst way to measure actual crime rates - it is essentially asking to be fooled.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> per capita doesn't matter for cameras You mean it may not matter. In practice, it is probably proportional to cameras per area, so it would matter.
As he said you can have 10 cameras pointing at one thing and know less information than one good placement... If indoor cameras count in this statistic then that throws off what is being watched, the people or the property for insurance purposes.
> As he said you can have
As I said, that's why it may matter, not why it does.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#26Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…
Worth noting that the proportion of the Atlanta metro area that is actually within the city proper Atlanta is MUCH lower than the other locations on this list. Atlanta is about 9%. London is about 60%. I'm guessing the cameras per person in Atlanta drops if you measure across the most densely populated 60% of the metro area.
True, and I think that this makes the statistics somewhat misleading. The Atlanta metro area has a population of roughly 6 million and it's not very centralized.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#27 'Surveilled' by who is the bigger question, and what public access and rights do we have around the data produced, and is it being fed to some sort of Stasi style panopticon?
It's remarkable to me the lack of public surveillance video produced after major events - the Epstein NY 'suicide' is the latest example, the 2017 UK London Bridge event another. (The latter had video from a mile away filmed with 90's technology as the main news story). I feel we are very overdue in the free world for legislation around citizen rights and access to video, and licensing for any entity or people who want to install surveillance, much like the recent drone FAA registration.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
What matters more than the number of cameras is how/if the cameras are integrated. I don't much care that the local gas station has cameras tied to a 30-day DVR. I expect that. I don't expect them to be connected to facial-recognition AI, networked to the national police, and be feeding my movements into a citizenship score system that will impact my future job prospects.
While not networked to the national police I expect that many commercial security cameras do have facial recognition to identify suspected thieves and VIPs along with tracking movement habits through the store which is shared with advertisers and product manufactures to justify cost for higher profile shelf space.
>> tracking movement habits through the store
My understanding is that was a passing fad a few years ago. It was hyped by some startups but commercial users found it less than helpful compared to traditional metrics. I met a grocery store consultant (a real job) at a security conference. He said they used cameras to deal with traffic issues (even load between aisles) and predict cashier/customer ratios. They had abandoned the face/eye-tracking tech. Eye-level shelf space is better. They don't need an algorithm to keep telling them that.
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#29Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…
How does someone go about finding this kind of unsavory information about a city?
Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World
#30My first thought was: how is NYC not on this list since it has cameras on every block, and has for decades. And then I saw this: "Atlanta was the only place in the U.S. to crack the top ten, with 15.56 cameras per thousand residents." So they are looking at cameras per 1000 residents. This seems like the wrong way to count. If you point a camera at a block, you see everyone on that block whether there is one person o…
I agree with your assessment. I'm in Atlanta and I'd be hard pressed to say I see too many cameras outside of roadway cameras, which we have LOTS of. I'd wager road cams make up a very health proportion of the cameras counted by this article. Pedestrian cameras, not so much.