Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

newstatesman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#21

Post by corporateslave5 »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #7
corporateslave5 wrote: post #3

Even though Heidegger was a nazi, he had a close relationship with Hannah Arendt, who was a Jewish political philosopher. Weird to conceive of holding nazi ideology in your head whilst dating Arendt.

Slightly tangential, but Hannah Arendt, in addition to being a political philosopher, wrote a fairly thought-provoking tome called 'The Origins of Totalitarianism'. Worth a read if one is interested in such things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origins_of_Totalitarianism I'm not completely well-versed in Heidegger, but is it possible that he did not hold his Nazi beliefs so close to his heart that true love (corn…

Yeah I’ve read about half of origins of totalitarianism. Really unique book. One interesting thing I read is how she shows that colonialism from the dominating powers was quite often rooted in capitalist goals. And so she shows how underpinning totalitarianism and powers spreading over other countries was the result of greed by those in power. Makes sense, but I never think of how capitalism could lead to that.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#22

Post by efficax »

joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

yeah this article is not really jacked in to mainstream continental philosophy attitudes on heidegger after the publication of the “Black Notebooks”, where heidegger is an unabashed antisemite

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#23

Post by sswaner »

joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

That is incorrect unless by "last few years" you mean last 25-30. When I was studying Philosophy in the early 90's we read Heidegger and the professor started that section with a discussion on whether we could separate the philosophy from the politics.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#24

Post by sswaner »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #10
madacoo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism, should now be subject to suspicion on account of their originator's political affiliations?

I don't know if the OP suggested that Heidegger's philosophy should now be suspect, but rather claimed that his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties. If some great painting was found to have been created by a Nazi, would the merit of the art be suspect in the eyes of art historians and the public? I wouldn't think so, but of course it's a different me…

People still drive Volkswagens.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#25

Post by throwawayjava »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #15
madacoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties I think this probably is indeed the case. Although I would argue the value of an idea should be entirely detached from who had it, and be a function only of its usefulness, beauty and other significant attributes. Of course if a Nazi has an idea we might then argue it becomes less beautiful because of that.

I would concur in your take on the argument. I think it's important, to promote rational and productive discourse, to push back on those that would have us believe that ideas are in essence, "guilty by association", based on the reputation or history of those who formulate said ideas. Instead, the ideas, theories, philosophies, etc. should be confronted directly on their own merit or lack thereof. I don't think someo…

Comparing philosophers with constitution writers is a bit difficult. Philosophizing and nation building are quite different from one another.

But, basically, the question we should ask:

"is there a direct connection between Heidegger's philosophical prescriptions and his fascism?"

If so, that suggests a pretty serious problem with his prescriptions -- that, in certain milieu -- his ideas comfortably co-exist with or perhaps even feed/justify a fascist mindset.

IMO that line was always kind of obvious, but in any case, Heidegger drew it directly for us in his Black Notebooks.

Especially in Heidegger's case -- because of the very broad nature of the prescriptions that follow from his work -- I think that's quite different from mere "guilt by association".

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#26

Post by cygx »

dang wrote: post #17
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn’t been just the last few years. Heidegger’s Nazism became an issue already in the 1960s, when other intellectuals like Paul Celan struggled to reconcile his philosophical insights with his actions during the Hitler regime.

Marcuse was corresponding with him about it in 1947. https://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/40spubs/47MarcuseHeideg...

Heidegger's response looks rather weak to me, but note that Marcuse also didn't get his point about the treatment of East Germans by 'one of the Allies':

Not too long ago, I saw an exhibition on the 'Wolfskinder'[1], and what happened there looked pretty genocidal to me (though of course it wasn't the same as the meticulously planned 'Endlösung').

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_children

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#27

Post by xurias »

madacoo wrote: post #18

> The book was a refutation of the distinction between mind and body, and all the fallacies that follow. “I think, therefore I am” was, in Heidegger’s reckoning, a “naive supposition”, an anthropocentric conceit that went all the way back to Plato. Humans cannot be imagined either outside or prior to the world into which they are “thrown” – a bed of land, language, tradition, history and more. Heidegger believed that…

Maybe the article is wrong? The two concepts address two entirely different issues and I don't see how the book could be a refutation with that description.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#28

Post by martin_a »

sswaner wrote: post #23
joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

That is incorrect unless by "last few years" you mean last 25-30. When I was studying Philosophy in the early 90's we read Heidegger and the professor started that section with a discussion on whether we could separate the philosophy from the politics.

I did not study philosophy but I'd think that you can't separate it.

Philosophy does not happen detached from the real world, does it? It's something that is influenced by the world and the things happening around you, so how could you separate it?

What's your opinion on that? Or your professors?

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#29

Post by lordgrenville »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6
joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

It hasn’t been just the last few years. Heidegger’s Nazism became an issue already in the 1960s, when other intellectuals like Paul Celan struggled to reconcile his philosophical insights with his actions during the Hitler regime.

But things changed completely when the 'Black Notebooks' were published a few years ago [1]. They showed antisemitism to be a much deeper part of his thought, and it's much harder to argue that he just paid lip service to Nazism. He explicitly asked for them to be published last of all his writings [2], perhaps because he knew how controversial they were.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/13/martin-heidegg...

[2] http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/martin-heideggers-black-n...

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#30

Post by inesprimibile »

madacoo wrote: post #18

> The book was a refutation of the distinction between mind and body, and all the fallacies that follow. “I think, therefore I am” was, in Heidegger’s reckoning, a “naive supposition”, an anthropocentric conceit that went all the way back to Plato. Humans cannot be imagined either outside or prior to the world into which they are “thrown” – a bed of land, language, tradition, history and more. Heidegger believed that…

No, Heidegger explicitly attempts to refute and attack Descartes's supposition "cogito ergo sum" (the first therefore). And one can read all of Heidegger's early philosophy as an attempt to undo the errors started by Descartes: Heidegger faults Descartes with stymieing all of modern philosophy with a false first presupposition.

Heidegger's fault with Descartes lies in the very first two words: "I think." Heidegger does not believe that the "I" (Dasein/Being) is the thing that thinks (directly at least). In Descartes' world, humans are "res cogitans" ("thinking machines"): the "I" is that which thinks. For Descartes, there is some thing that is doing the thinking. In Heidegger's world, there is not some mysterious being that thinks, but rather the "I" is the experiencing/thinking itself (the "thrown-openness"). This is why Heidegger always uses verbs/gerunds to describe Being.

For Heidegger, the simple statement "I think" cannot possibly be true because there is no "I" behind the thinking. For Heidegger, the analog basic first-claim would instead simply be: "there is thinking" (the "ego"/"I" as we think about it is the "thinking" itself for Heidegger).

Post reply on HN