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Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

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Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#11

Post by mykowebhn »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #7
corporateslave5 wrote: post #3

Even though Heidegger was a nazi, he had a close relationship with Hannah Arendt, who was a Jewish political philosopher. Weird to conceive of holding nazi ideology in your head whilst dating Arendt.

Slightly tangential, but Hannah Arendt, in addition to being a political philosopher, wrote a fairly thought-provoking tome called 'The Origins of Totalitarianism'. Worth a read if one is interested in such things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origins_of_Totalitarianism I'm not completely well-versed in Heidegger, but is it possible that he did not hold his Nazi beliefs so close to his heart that true love (corn…

Although not a technical book, 'At the Existentialist Cafe' goes quite deeply into Heidegger's relationship with Arendt and Husserl and his time as a member of the Nazi party. It's quite damning if it's true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Existentialist_Cafe

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#12

Post by coolandsmartrr »

corporateslave5 wrote: post #3

Even though Heidegger was a nazi, he had a close relationship with Hannah Arendt, who was a Jewish political philosopher. Weird to conceive of holding nazi ideology in your head whilst dating Arendt.

Arendt later recalled Heidegger as someone who "fell into his own trap." AFAIK, Heidegger was not an ardent Nazi, who joined the party anyways for practical purposes. As Sarah Bakewell, author of "At the Existentialist Cafe",[1] would characterize him as "lacking personality." He wanted to reform education, but failed to gain enough political influence within the party to do so. Even after WW2, he never issued an official comment on his affiliation with Nazism.

[1] Recommended read. Touches on interactions among existentialist thinkers like Karl Jaspers, Maurice Merleau-Ponty, Jean-Paul Sarte, Edmund Hurssel.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#13

Post by earthboundkid »

madacoo wrote: post #4
joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism, should now be subject to suspicion on account of their originator's political affiliations?

> and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism

That's begging the question.

We want to examine his writings to figure out a) how important is the biographical question to his work and b) how bad were the Nazis and why? Maybe thinking in terms of "Dasein" leads inevitably to death camps. Maybe not. But you can't just assume there's no connection (or that there is one). You have to argue it out.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#14

Post by madacoo »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #10
madacoo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism, should now be subject to suspicion on account of their originator's political affiliations?

I don't know if the OP suggested that Heidegger's philosophy should now be suspect, but rather claimed that his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties. If some great painting was found to have been created by a Nazi, would the merit of the art be suspect in the eyes of art historians and the public? I wouldn't think so, but of course it's a different me…

> his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties

I think this probably is indeed the case. Although I would argue the value of an idea should be entirely detached from who had it, and be a function only of its usefulness, beauty and other significant attributes.

Of course if a Nazi has an idea we might then argue it becomes less beautiful because of that.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#15

Post by FillardMillmore »

madacoo wrote: post #14
FillardMillmore wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if the OP suggested that Heidegger's philosophy should now be suspect, but rather claimed that his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties. If some great painting was found to have been created by a Nazi, would the merit of the art be suspect in the eyes of art historians and the public? I wouldn't think so, but of course it's a different me…

> his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties I think this probably is indeed the case. Although I would argue the value of an idea should be entirely detached from who had it, and be a function only of its usefulness, beauty and other significant attributes. Of course if a Nazi has an idea we might then argue it becomes less beautiful because of that.

I would concur in your take on the argument. I think it's important, to promote rational and productive discourse, to push back on those that would have us believe that ideas are in essence, "guilty by association", based on the reputation or history of those who formulate said ideas.

Instead, the ideas, theories, philosophies, etc. should be confronted directly on their own merit or lack thereof. I don't think someone, in good faith, could claim that the ideas of liberty and freedom proposed by many of architects of the constitution of the United States are lessened simply because some of these people were slave owners. That's not to say that we can't look back now and agree that their practice of slavery was morally wrong, but to pillory their positive contributions to the world simply because of this seems quite nefarious.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#16

Post by madacoo »

earthboundkid wrote: post #13
madacoo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism, should now be subject to suspicion on account of their originator's political affiliations?

> and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism That's begging the question. We want to examine his writings to figure out a) how important is the biographical question to his work and b) how bad were the Nazis and why? Maybe thinking in terms of "Dasein" leads inevitably to death camps. Maybe not. But you can't just assume there's no connection (or that there is one). You have to argue it out.

I think the claim that Dasein has to do with Nazism would need to be demonstrated. I think for any idea it is reasonable to assume it doesn't have anything to do with Nazism until demonstrated otherwise. Dasein's throwness, so far as I can see, doesn't have anything to do with Nazism.

Of course there is always the possibility for any idea that it leads to death camps. But it is rather hard to exhaustively explore the consequences of anything.

It could well be, however, that having an affilation with Nazism increases the likelihood that your ideas lead to death camps. Although even that ought to be deomnstrated rather than assumed.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#17

Post by dang »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #6
joe_the_user wrote: post #2

Once discredited by his association with Nazism, Martin Heidegger is enjoying a posthumous revival. So what is it about his ideas that resonate with so many? It seems like the situation is exactly the opposite. Heidegger was considered a leading throughout the 20th century and it is only in the last few years that the intensity of his NAZI affiliations has become evident (as well as the degree to which he mix philoso…

It hasn’t been just the last few years. Heidegger’s Nazism became an issue already in the 1960s, when other intellectuals like Paul Celan struggled to reconcile his philosophical insights with his actions during the Hitler regime.

Marcuse was corresponding with him about it in 1947.

https://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/40spubs/47MarcuseHeideg...

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#18

Post by madacoo »

> The book was a refutation of the distinction between mind and body, and all the fallacies that follow. “I think, therefore I am” was, in Heidegger’s reckoning, a “naive supposition”, an anthropocentric conceit that went all the way back to Plato. Humans cannot be imagined either outside or prior to the world into which they are “thrown” – a bed of land, language, tradition, history and more. Heidegger believed that only once this embeddedness, this “Being-there” (Dasein) in the world, is recognised can it be restored to its fullest, most authentic form, and the “forgetfulness of Being”, “the homelessness of man” and “the Fallenness of the world” overcome.

I actually don't see that "cogito ergo sum" and Heidegger's "thrown-ness" are so contradictory. Descarte wanted to find a claim irrefutable by logic on which to found his subsequent thought. And he did. The fact he went on from there to separate mind and body in a way that Heidegger's thrownn-ness doesn't require doesn't mean the ideas aren't compatible.

The problem with Descarte's thought is not the first but second therefore: I think therefore I am therefore my mind is separate from my body.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#19

Post by nn3 »

>>>At the time of writing, “Martin Heidegger” is one of only 174 English Wikipedia pages –out of a total 29 million – officially flagged as “incomprehensible” by the site.

If nobody can understand him, he's not worth caring about.

Re: Heidegger, the homesick philosopher

#20

Post by madacoo »

nn3 wrote: post #19

>>>At the time of writing, “Martin Heidegger” is one of only 174 English Wikipedia pages –out of a total 29 million – officially flagged as “incomprehensible” by the site. If nobody can understand him, he's not worth caring about.

He's following the German philsophical tradition of verbosity for its sake. But there is a small kernal of ideas that can be distilled from his work that academics generally agree are there and original enough for the time to be worth consideration. Interpretations vary wildly, of course, but that has almost as much to do with academia as it does Heidegger.
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