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Why the Amazon Is on Fire

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Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#21

Post by rad_gruchalski »

wsxcde wrote: post #9

If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation. Expecting poor people to voluntarily give up on the opportunity to make money because you are threatened about your children's future but can't even be arsed to reduce your own…

> If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation.

Wouldn’t this incentivise beef production? They would be indirectly paid for beef. Or am I reading this wrong?

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#22

Post by hu3 »

Some insight from NASA:

"In the Amazon region, fires are rare for much of the year because wet weather prevents them from starting and spreading. However, in July and August, activity typically increases due to the arrival of the dry season. Many people use fire to maintain farmland and pastures or to clear land for other purposes. Typically, activity peaks in early September and mostly stops by November.

As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years. (The Amazon spreads across Brazil, Peru, Colombia, and parts of other countries.) Though activity appears to be above average in the states of Amazonas and Rondônia, it has so far appeared below average in Mato Grosso and Pará, according to estimates from the Global Fire Emissions Database, a research project that compiles and analyzes NASA data."

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra...

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#23

Post by f00zz »

vfc1 wrote: post #16
endorphone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t... .

US is the largest soybean producer in the world

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#24

Post by howard941 »

rsaraceni wrote: post #3
tvphan wrote: post #2

Just a random nitpick about the article... > An avid deforester, Bolsonaro has jokingly nicknamed himself “Captain Chainsaw.” An alternative article from The Guardian says that he rejects that term?! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/07/bolsonaro-amaz...

Brazilian here. In fact, he rejects the term. Some people of his staff deny global warming and he is known for lying and using fake science to justify absurd measures, like removing most of the environmental protection in favor of agriculture. Even rejecting the title, he is known like "Captain Chainsaw" and many others nicknames, most of them mocking him. Unfortunately, in Brazil, our people have a taste for populis…

> our people have a taste for populist presidents

Not just your people, they're everywhere

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#25

Post by Proven »

wsxcde wrote: post #9

If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation. Expecting poor people to voluntarily give up on the opportunity to make money because you are threatened about your children's future but can't even be arsed to reduce your own…

> pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation.

Typical HN comment: "never seen a problem which couldn't be solved by more taxation"!

Why wouldn't I avoid the said tax and use saved money to buy couple acres of Amazon forest and employ private security to keep everyone off my land?

It's pretty insane to assume that multiple layers (local taxation plus redistribution to other countries) of incompetent and corrupt government employees can do a better job of protecting property than actual owners.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#27

Post by thermoskafander »

vfc1 wrote: post #16
endorphone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t... .

it's right there in your link (to China) - https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/bra/show...

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#28

Post by parsnips »

vfc1 wrote: post #16
endorphone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t... .

The US is a net exporter of soy as well.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#29

Post by endorphone »

vfc1 wrote: post #16
endorphone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t... .

Since you've edited your comment to now be about soy, the US and Canada are both entirely self-sufficient with soy and are major exporters. The EU does import soy from Brazil but it is a tiny consumer (and dropping) relative to China.

Again, not the West. What's next? Adam Smith and the creation of capitalism?

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#30

Post by jfindley »

vfc1 wrote: post #16
endorphone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t... .

Again, the US is a significant exporter of soy beans, and most of the rest of the west consume fairly little. China is by far the largest importer of soy beans, importing about 30x[0] more than the next largest. Aside from the US and Canada, many western countries are net importers of soy beans, but not in anything like enough quantities to demand anything like the vast amounts Brazil exports.

0: https://oec.world/en/profile/hs92/1201/

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