After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues • Hacker News Board

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#21

Post by trickstra » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #19

seba_dos1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that this video comes from a very biased source (an unimportant party that literally went to elections with a claim to want to "destroy the EU from inside"). The issue may be real, but beware of how exactly it's being painted in this material.

If this issue is real (and it seems plausible to me) then destroying the EU from the inside might very well be an honorable thing to do.

It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones that nobody expects any protests so the people don't even raise their eyes. Copyright act was voted by names, otherwise Julia Reda wouldn't have the lists

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#22

Post by lisper » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

trickstra wrote: post #21

lisper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this issue is real (and it seems plausible to me) then destroying the EU from the inside might very well be an honorable thing to do.

It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones…

> Copyright act was voted by names

And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident":

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright...

So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#23

Post by jeremyjh » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #22

trickstra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones…

> Copyright act was voted by names And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident": https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright... So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.

Sounds like a great way to have your cake and eat it too.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#24

Post by isostatic » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

kozikow wrote: post #4

Brexit vote expressed people disagreement with bureaucracy and corruption like this, not with being a part of Europe.

Brexit was all about stopping Muslims from coming to the UK and kicking out people with brown skin.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/30/it-is-terri...

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#25

Post by isostatic » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

mbrumlow wrote: post #17

rimliu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote a comment on reddit: “It is monumentally ironic that the Member State planning to leave the EU because they want to make their own decisions, can't take any decision on leaving the EU.”

That is actually funny. But I think it is important that leaving also gives them the right to be just as indecisive as they want. Maybe being slow and arguing and thinking more about huge changes is exactly what they want.

Except both major party leaders invoked a50 when they didn’t need to. One of those leaders called to invoke it the morning after.

The winning “vote leave” campaign said it was a careful process.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#26

Post by isostatic » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #22

trickstra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones…

> Copyright act was voted by names And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident": https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright... So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.

In Westminster the voting system means you have to leave the chamber and go through into another room. Takes about 15 minutes.

You get MPs that vote both yes and no.

People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it - they’ve probably never had anyone contact them about which way they voted in the past.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#27

Post by IanCal » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #26

lisper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright act was voted by names And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident": https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright... So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.

In Westminster the voting system means you have to leave the chamber and go through into another room. Takes about 15 minutes. You get MPs that vote both yes and no. People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it - they’ve probably never had anyone contact them about which way they voted in the past.

I'm not sure how a different chamber votes is all that relevant.

> You get MPs that vote both yes and no.

Do you? I've not heard of many issues with the process apart from things typically hundreds of years ago.

> People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it

Or because they actually did make a mistake.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#28

Post by Moru » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

herbstein wrote: post #16

jgmjgm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. This type of criticism is unwarranted and I suspect disingenuous. There are lots of contexts in which we can say we would like to see more data. However, when someone is making a point which is a fairly standard one in the Brexit debates we don't need "references". Nor would referring to an article that said the same thing as OP somehow validate the point. There is a place for asking for references, but on…

One of the big reasons that pulled people to voting "no" was the perceived "invasion" of immigrants. There was a perception that EU were forcing the UK's hand, and aiding the "invasion".

There's also the filter bubble. People think everything is down the drains because that is all they hear about.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#29

Post by johnnycab » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

Others have said the incorrect votes were perhaps not so accidental. Magnus Andersson, leader of the Swedish Pirate Party, suggested on Twitter that MEPs may have corrected the record just so they could later say they meant to do the right thing “as a way to get away with how they voted.”

Some votes cast in the plebiscite were incidental rather than being accidental; the upcoming European elections in May, might require some members to contain the backlash or limit any blowback.

Re: After accidental vote, EU copyright bill faces three legitimacy issues

#30

Post by mrosett » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

I'm not sure if the author is in the "denial" stage or the "bargaining" stage of grief. The outcome of the vote is an absolute travesty, and I don't understand the intricacies of EU politics, but everything I've seen gives me the impression that this is a done deal.