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Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

nytimes.com

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Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#21

Post by gph »

burtonator wrote: post #12
resalisbury wrote: post #2

From the article: "It may be legal to pledge $2.5 million to Harvard just as your son is applying — which is what Jared Kushner’s father did for him — and illegal to bribe a coach to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, but how much of a difference is there, really? Both elevate money over accomplishment."

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

Goodheart's law.

Besides what employer wants to hire someone based just on their intelligence scores? If someone is an uncooperative egoist prick I don't think many companies will want to hire them no matter their test scores.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#22

Post by nordsieck »

phonon wrote: post #19
burtonator wrote: post #11

My company foolishly donated data to Stanford for nearly a decade. We asked them for an 'in kind' license to OpenNLP and were basically completely rebuffed. They're taking in money hand over fist. We need to stop thinking of these as universities anymore. They're cash cows...

Do you mean https://github.com/stanfordnlp/CoreNLP ? Why would you expect them to relicense GPL libre software to you? What does "in kind" mean?

> What does "in kind" mean?

in-kind (adj): consisting of something (such as goods or commodities) other than money

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in-kind

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#23

Post by magpi3 »

massivecali wrote: post #4
resalisbury wrote: post #2

From the article: "It may be legal to pledge $2.5 million to Harvard just as your son is applying — which is what Jared Kushner’s father did for him — and illegal to bribe a coach to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, but how much of a difference is there, really? Both elevate money over accomplishment."

The first is for the benefit of all the other students in the form of reduced tuition grants, a new library, lab equipment etc. The other is for the benefit of the bribe taker. There are lots of situations that elevate X over accomplishment, but this seems like one with actual benefit on a large scale. That said, I hope they all get punished for it.

If the bribe taker donated all of the money to charity, would that make it any less unethical for the University/basketball coach? A bribe is a bribe, and the spot that was taken in the University could have and should have gone to someone more deserving.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#24

Post by cshimmin »

0_gravitas wrote: post #9
zarkov99 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the money goes towards scholarships for the deserving but poor its a good trade. Less so if it ends up in the pockets of corrupt paper pushers.

And if I had to bet I would put money on the money not 'trickling down' as we would hope.

About 65% of students at Yale receive need-based financial aid from the University. Students coming from households making less than $65k don't pay anything at all for tuition/room/board. So clearly some of that endowment money is "trickling down".

Source: https://finaid.yale.edu/costs-affordability/affordability

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#25

Post by solomatov »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #8

Its called a "return on investment". You don't 'donate' millions of dollars, and have a building named after you out of love for education. You do it for your name, your legacy, and to guarantee spots for your family.

The article isn't about this. It's about literal bribes.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#26

Post by NavyNuke »

40acres wrote: post #7

This is why, to me, the entire debate about affirmative action at elite colleges is a complete red herring. The amount of kids, regardless of race, who can be considered "deserving" of a spot has been reduced more so by legacy admissions and these bribes than by any effort of individual institutions to even out racial or gender demographics.

That is why it stings for poor or working class Asians and non-Jewish Whites...you don't get the affirmative action or legacy leg up...

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#27

Post by smallgovt »

A smaller subset of this problem is paying people to take standardized tests for you. I graduated from an ivy and had a couple peers who got a perfect score on their SAT's but could only speak broken English. If you're willing to pay someone to cheat on standardized tests, I'm not surprised you're willing to bribe someone to gain admissions also.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#29

Post by jachee »

NavyNuke wrote: post #26
40acres wrote: post #7

This is why, to me, the entire debate about affirmative action at elite colleges is a complete red herring. The amount of kids, regardless of race, who can be considered "deserving" of a spot has been reduced more so by legacy admissions and these bribes than by any effort of individual institutions to even out racial or gender demographics.

That is why it stings for poor or working class Asians and non-Jewish Whites...you don't get the affirmative action or legacy leg up...

Oi. What's with the antisemitism?

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#30

Post by [deleted] »

mehrdadn wrote: post #15
burtonator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

I mean this still disadvantages poorer people, who don't have money to fund their kids' preparations for exams. The point of holistic admissions is to try to factor things like that in.

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