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Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

bbc.com

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Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#21

Post by godelmachine »

dogma1138 wrote: post #16
godelmachine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an Indian and until yesterday, I wholeheartedly supported the strikes by us on Pakistan mainland. Please note that the strikes were to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure with surgical precision. Pakistan took offense to this and have retaliated. During this retaliation, they caught one of our fighter pilots behind their lines. This happened when 2 MiG 21's from India engaged a dozen F16's coming from Pakista…

India has nearly 250 SU-30’s which at least they have a chance who in the world would’ve ordered Mig 21’s to scramble against western jets after seeing how Soviet and Arab pilots faired in them against the Israelis in Mirages, F4s and F15/16s between 1967 and 1981?

If you know anything about CAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_air_patrol , the fighter aircraft which is closest to the intruders responds.

In our case, it happened to be MiG 21.

Had it been Sukhoi-30, we would had shot down at least half a dozen of them.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#22

Post by dogma1138 »

godelmachine wrote: post #21
dogma1138 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has nearly 250 SU-30’s which at least they have a chance who in the world would’ve ordered Mig 21’s to scramble against western jets after seeing how Soviet and Arab pilots faired in them against the Israelis in Mirages, F4s and F15/16s between 1967 and 1981?

If you know anything about CAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_air_patrol , the fighter aircraft which is closest to the intruders responds. In our case, it happened to be MiG 21. Had it been Sukhoi-30, we would had shot down at least half a dozen of them.

I think you over estimating what the SU-30 can do; it stands a better chance but what you are describing is unlikely given the armament of the F16s.

The question is still why are the MiG 21s even operating in a contested environment when the opposition is much better armed when there is a better alternative.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#23

Post by godelmachine »

dogma1138 wrote: post #22
godelmachine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know anything about CAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_air_patrol , the fighter aircraft which is closest to the intruders responds. In our case, it happened to be MiG 21. Had it been Sukhoi-30, we would had shot down at least half a dozen of them.

I think you over estimating what the SU-30 can do; it stands a better chance but what you are describing is unlikely given the armament of the F16s. The question is still why are the MiG 21s even operating in a contested environment when the opposition is much better armed when there is a better alternative.

Uh well, I asked the same question yesterday.

MiG 21’s are due to be phased out of service this year. India had signed a deal with France for Dassault Rafale, but the deal stumbled coz opposition party accused the government of misappropriation. Things are a bit clear now and the deal may go through soon, and delivery may take around 2 years, but’s that’s what it is.

India has also signed a deal with Lockheed to produce F16’s indigenously. That may also take a while.

That’s the grim situation here. Our Air Force needs to upgrade the fleet.

Apart from all this, we have created our own Tejas, which is a Light Combat Aircraft, But it will not see action anytime soon.

I personally believe Dassault Rafale can take down F16 Fighting Falcon in a dogfight. What do you think?

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#24

Post by kuhhk »

dogma1138 wrote: post #19
amriksohata wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No second strike capability? Do you really think either of these countries have no second strike capability? I think you underestimate both sides armies and their command and control.

Neither side have centralized command and control, no centralized launch control, both Indian and Pakistani nukes are practically unsafe and neither country has a nuclear triad nor hardened launch capabilities that can survive a first strike, the only 2nd strike any of these countries would get is due to the sheer incompetence of their opponent. What’s worse is that both sides also lack proper early warning systems,…

Where did you get all of this information about Pakistan and India's nuclear strategy or lack thereof? Do you have a source or evidence for what you're claiming here?

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#25

Post by pknerd »

pkd wrote: post #4
ishjoh wrote: post #2

I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events?

The mainstream media (some TV news channels, especially) have been warmongering quite hard in India. I assume it's the same in Pakistan.

> I assume it's the same in Pakistan.

Not really. You may check Pakistani media via Youtube and others. As far as Pakistanis, we are not getting into such hysteria either. We are more busy in making memes and watching PSL.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#26

Post by pknerd »

nsenifty wrote: post #3
ishjoh wrote: post #2

I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events?

Both Indian and Pakistani media are peddling irresponsible lies and half-truths. It's been really hard to separate the truth from the noise.

Not really. You may check Pakistani media via Youtube and others. As far as Pakistanis, we are not getting into such hysteria either. We are more busy in making memes and watching PSL.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#27

Post by pknerd »

dfilppi wrote: post #9

Why would they announce that? What strategy is forwarded by announcing it?

Because a day earlier India announced about a fake surgical strike where their pilots dropped payload and killed a few trees and said they killed terrorists

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#28

Post by pknerd »

NTDF9 wrote: post #10
dfilppi wrote: post #9

Why would they announce that? What strategy is forwarded by announcing it?

The announcement is done to achieve two things: 1. Posture to their own populace that they're not backing down (thus winning political scores) 2. Show to the rest of the world that they are leadership to reckon with, that they don't back down cowardly. Imagine two high-school teens with some social status fighting on the playground. They will not back off because of social status reasons. Only here, the teens have nu…

I am a Pakistani and I do agree with you here. But we have left no choice either. Modi wants to use jingoism to win elections

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#29

Post by pknerd »

Indian PM Modi was(is) in trouble. He lost elections massively in 4(?) Indian states. He is also facing Rafael planes scandal in which former French President also revealed a few things about the scandal. Opposition parties like INC and AAP raised voice against Modi's moves to mess within and out of the country. Unlike Pakistan, India has more hysteria for the neighbor and like everywhere else, using religion and Pakistan could help to gain popular votes. The attack by India was very predictable, even Indians[1] said it 5-6 months back. What actually made it worse for Modi that Pakistan responded back and captured their pilot thus made Modi in trouble as the opposition is asking questions.

Despite of warmongering Media and politicians, PM of Pakistan again asked for dialogues. Even many sane Indians are appreciating it [2]

PS: All of the Info above about India politics is based on Indian newspapers and their politicians' statements.

[1] https://twitter.com/ashoswai/status/1072503110118096897?lang...

[2] https://www.facebook.com/hanif.ajari/posts/2606114666071848

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#30

Post by dang »

godelmachine wrote: post #14
dfilppi wrote: post #9

Why would they announce that? What strategy is forwarded by announcing it?

To stop cross border terrorism state sponsored by Pakistan and proxy war. We Indian's are fed up of these! Paki's don't let us live in peace.

If you continue to do nationalistic flamewar on HN we will ban you. No more of this, please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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