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Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

bbc.com

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Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#11

Post by godelmachine »

ishjoh wrote: post #2

I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events?

I am an Indian and until yesterday, I wholeheartedly supported the strikes by us on Pakistan mainland. Please note that the strikes were to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure with surgical precision.

Pakistan took offense to this and have retaliated. During this retaliation, they caught one of our fighter pilots behind their lines. This happened when 2 MiG 21's from India engaged a dozen F16's coming from Pakistan. (Not sure about all 12 of them being F16's. There were 12 for sure. Some reports say 4 F16's , 4 JF7 Thunder and 4 Chengdu J-7)

Since then, I want the pilot to be brought back home and want retaliation to take a back burner.

Pakistani's too support going on the offensive.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#12

Post by ishjoh »

godelmachine wrote: post #11
ishjoh wrote: post #2

I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events?

I am an Indian and until yesterday, I wholeheartedly supported the strikes by us on Pakistan mainland. Please note that the strikes were to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure with surgical precision. Pakistan took offense to this and have retaliated. During this retaliation, they caught one of our fighter pilots behind their lines. This happened when 2 MiG 21's from India engaged a dozen F16's coming from Pakista…

Thank you for commenting.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#13

Post by mc32 »

bdz wrote: post #8

>Mess with the best. Die like a pest! https://twitter.com/zartajgulwazir/status/110069112527752396... Crazy that a minister can write something like that. Not really surprised but still.

I have to ask, why are the maps labeled using the Latin alphabet?

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#14

Post by godelmachine »

dfilppi wrote: post #9

Why would they announce that? What strategy is forwarded by announcing it?

To stop cross border terrorism state sponsored by Pakistan and proxy war.

We Indian's are fed up of these!

Paki's don't let us live in peace.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#15

Post by dogma1138 »

mgolawala wrote: post #5

Having two nuclear powers shooting each other's planes out of the sky should make the whole world nervous. In a perverse way, it is probably a good thing that they are both nuclear powers. The stakes are too high for them NOT to call a truce and end this madness before it gets out of hand. It seems like most remain hopeful that both sides will stand down after a couple of rounds of chest beating. Knowing humanity, it…

It’s much worse with India and Pakistan.

No centralized command and control, little to no fail safes once the physics package is integrated and warmed up, no second strike capability all of this results in a doctrine of tactical deployments with field commanders holding launch responsibilities.

This isn’t the US and Russia where they can obliterate each other conventionally and no one would be able to fire a nuke off unless the leadership calls for it. This could start and end with a field level commander in some valley in Kashmir hitting the button because they can’t get their superiors on the line and some villager claimed they’ve seen a mushroom cloud.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#16

Post by dogma1138 »

godelmachine wrote: post #11
ishjoh wrote: post #2

I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events?

I am an Indian and until yesterday, I wholeheartedly supported the strikes by us on Pakistan mainland. Please note that the strikes were to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure with surgical precision. Pakistan took offense to this and have retaliated. During this retaliation, they caught one of our fighter pilots behind their lines. This happened when 2 MiG 21's from India engaged a dozen F16's coming from Pakista…

India has nearly 250 SU-30’s which at least they have a chance who in the world would’ve ordered Mig 21’s to scramble against western jets after seeing how Soviet and Arab pilots faired in them against the Israelis in Mirages, F4s and F15/16s between 1967 and 1981?

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#17

Post by amriksohata »

dogma1138 wrote: post #15
mgolawala wrote: post #5

Having two nuclear powers shooting each other's planes out of the sky should make the whole world nervous. In a perverse way, it is probably a good thing that they are both nuclear powers. The stakes are too high for them NOT to call a truce and end this madness before it gets out of hand. It seems like most remain hopeful that both sides will stand down after a couple of rounds of chest beating. Knowing humanity, it…

It’s much worse with India and Pakistan. No centralized command and control, little to no fail safes once the physics package is integrated and warmed up, no second strike capability all of this results in a doctrine of tactical deployments with field commanders holding launch responsibilities. This isn’t the US and Russia where they can obliterate each other conventionally and no one would be able to fire a nuke off…

No second strike capability? Do you really think either of these countries have no second strike capability? I think you underestimate both sides armies and their command and control.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#18

Post by amriksohata »

India have played a diplomatic masterclass. They can claim non-military action against a terrorist group (that is supported by ex pakistani army men which were probably killed too). 300 in total. Whilst Pakistan took down 1 of Indias armymen and 40 soliders via a terror attack. India also claims to have down a Pakistani jet. Overall India look better on the international stage and have also manned down more numbers. Pakistan really has been useless both at diplomatic and non diplomatic methods.

Re: Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot

#19

Post by dogma1138 »

amriksohata wrote: post #17
dogma1138 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s much worse with India and Pakistan. No centralized command and control, little to no fail safes once the physics package is integrated and warmed up, no second strike capability all of this results in a doctrine of tactical deployments with field commanders holding launch responsibilities. This isn’t the US and Russia where they can obliterate each other conventionally and no one would be able to fire a nuke off…

No second strike capability? Do you really think either of these countries have no second strike capability? I think you underestimate both sides armies and their command and control.

Neither side have centralized command and control, no centralized launch control, both Indian and Pakistani nukes are practically unsafe and neither country has a nuclear triad nor hardened launch capabilities that can survive a first strike, the only 2nd strike any of these countries would get is due to the sheer incompetence of their opponent.

What’s worse is that both sides also lack proper early warning systems, reliable IFF, centralized communications, and essentially everything needs to ensure that no one is going to make a huge mistake.

India and Pakistan are both a joke sadly for the rest of the world not a particularly funny one, and what will start with them won’t end with them since Russia, China and the US would get dragged into the situation.

One of the biggest criticism of the nuclear non proliferation treaty is that it lacks the provision to deal with nations that achieve break out of full nuclear capabilities and allow the nuclear power to provide them with guidance and the tools to actually secure their nuclear arsenal.

To put things into perspective China only now is establishing a centralized and fault tolerant command and control infrastructure with continuity of government and military command, both the US and Russia have been constantly miss identifying anything form wild geese to sounding rockets as possible first strike candidates and you if expect India and Pakistan to handle these issues with competency then you might need to reconsider what you define as such.

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