Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 99 posts

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#21

Post by pseudolus »

fvdessen wrote: post #15

Isn't replacing people with machines what we've been doing uninterrupted since the beginning of the industrial revolution ? In what sense is replacing a translator with DeepL different from replacing a farmer with a tractor ? We've gone from more than two third of the population working on the fields to less than 5% and people still have jobs. What has changed that makes us think that this time it will be different ?

One of the issues is the fairly short timescale over which this is happening. The other is that no credible alternative has emerged as to what role displaced workers, and ultimately their descendants, will have in a society that will be unable to offer employment opportunities. This situation can be distinguished from the reduction in the farm population where farm workers were readily redeployed to the industrial/factory sectors.

There are a lot important questions that will need to be answered in a very short time. Where will the future unemployed be redeployed? Will the lack of employment lead to instability and civil strife? What about social mobility and advancement? Will the inequality gap worsen?

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#22

Post by jackcosgrove »

fvdessen wrote: post #15

Isn't replacing people with machines what we've been doing uninterrupted since the beginning of the industrial revolution ? In what sense is replacing a translator with DeepL different from replacing a farmer with a tractor ? We've gone from more than two third of the population working on the fields to less than 5% and people still have jobs. What has changed that makes us think that this time it will be different ?

Human civilization moved at a snail's pace for millennia until industrialization. Machines however have seen explosive growth in capability since the 18th century. The human body is like a Swiss Army knife that can perform many tasks well, but if I want to cut through a 2x4 I'll use a circular saw and if I want to butter my bread I'll use a butter knife. Machines permit greater specialization and differentiation than do our bodies. The trend lines of the capabilities of man and machine seem clear to me.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#23

Post by gotocake »

fvdessen wrote: post #15

Isn't replacing people with machines what we've been doing uninterrupted since the beginning of the industrial revolution ? In what sense is replacing a translator with DeepL different from replacing a farmer with a tractor ? We've gone from more than two third of the population working on the fields to less than 5% and people still have jobs. What has changed that makes us think that this time it will be different ?

Replacing people with machines isn’t, and has never been the problem. Telling generations of people who depend on the jobs they have to suck it up and move out of the way of progress without good recourse is. Shrugging and telling people to make do with two or three “gig” jobs is a bullshit answer to their concerns, as are empty suggestions to retrain or find a new job. People don’t work a coal face because it’s fun, but because it’s what they know how to do, and it brings home the bacon.

So if you want people to do more than spit on us as we pass, we should put effort into ensuring a safety net for them when the work we domtskes their livliehood away. Right now that doesn’t happen, the wealth just accumulates at the top while we suckle drops of it when it “trickles down” on us. It’s easy to talk about how machines will give us more free time, because we can afford it.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#24

Post by deboboy »

mathattack wrote: post #11
MBlume wrote: post #3

...Good? Work is horrible? If a drop in the amount of work that needs to be done is actually a problem then that's a policy failure.

Indeed. The same newspaper that decry automation also complain about the future lack of workers available to take care of elderly.

There's no immediate [5yr horizon] automation coming to solve this. Human home care workers will be needed [and more of them]; it's in a category of jobs that not even machines want.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#25

Post by redahs »

empath75 wrote: post #12
MBlume wrote: post #3

...Good? Work is horrible? If a drop in the amount of work that needs to be done is actually a problem then that's a policy failure.

It’ll be a problem because ultimately the people who own all the capital won’t need anyone else to survive. They’ll build walls and robot guards and live in their utopias of plenty while everyone else starves.

The ownership of land by value is more unequally distributed than the ownership of capital. Capital depreciates and needs to be regularly replaced each generation. The wealthy have never needed robots to live a life of plenty; they can extract as much labor power as they need through rent.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#26

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

Animats wrote: post #16

We need to make progress on automating the job of the CEO. The CEO is just an intermediary between investors and profitable activity. Why should they be so expensive? ROI would improve if CEO costs could be cut, especially for underperforminmg CEOs. There's already a hedge fund where an AI has a board vote on acquisitions. This isn't that far out of reach.

Or even just forcing wealthy and corporate entities to actually pay adequate taxes, instead of crushing the slightly-above-poverty classes with tax burden to pay for bullshit services or assistance for the poverty-and-below classes.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#28

Post by choonway »

What a piece of reverse psychology/propaganda.

The agenda of the so called "Davos Elite" is to maintain the status quo. Because that is all they know what to control. Automation and AI and the future unknown unknowns scares them to hell.

Re: Automation Agenda of the Davos Elite

#29

Post by pseudolus »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #19
fvdessen wrote: post #15

Isn't replacing people with machines what we've been doing uninterrupted since the beginning of the industrial revolution ? In what sense is replacing a translator with DeepL different from replacing a farmer with a tractor ? We've gone from more than two third of the population working on the fields to less than 5% and people still have jobs. What has changed that makes us think that this time it will be different ?

Because “world continually gets better over time” isn’t a headline that gets clicks. But one that makes people afraid of something does. That fear is also a great way of promoting a number of different political agendas, which is why you’ll see all sorts of people stirring it up.

The "world continually gets better over time" is historically a relatively new concept. There are many periods in human history where things have significantly worsened. As they say in finance - past performance is not indicative of future results.
Post reply on HN