The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End • Hacker News Board

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#21

Post by cronix » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #11

We need to focus more on reuse than on recycling. I'd like to see regulations and tax incentives to encourage beverage companies to use glass bottles that can be washed and reused, rather than disposable aluminum or (even worse) plastic. It's a common sight in Silicon Valley offices to see greasy empty pizza boxes in the recycling bin. People just don't seem to realize that greasy cardboard can't be recycled, and mig…

> People just don't seem to realize that greasy cardboard can't be recycled

I think a lot actually do realize it. At least where I live, the garbage bins at residences are about 1/2-3/4 the size as the recycle bins (glass has a separate bin). A lot just use it as a garbage bin, because the recycle bin is usually "free" and some pizza boxes don't even fit in the actual garbage bin (without taking time to break it down). A pizza box can take up a lot of room in the actual smaller trash bin, and they'd rather fill it with other trash. I'd attribute it more to laziness and convenience.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#22

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #17

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #3

From a linked nat geo article: “I never thought plastic recycling would work,” says Roland Geyer, an engineering professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara and author of the study “Production, use and fate of all plastics ever made.” “There is a viable business model around metal, but plastics never has had that. It’s too low-value, too contaminated, with too many different polymers mixed together. And…

> you can only make it work with a really low cost of labor. Yet, isn’t that what automation provides? It has been two decades since supermarkets in the Nordic countries have whizbang bottle-return machines that take back plastic, aluminium, and glass bottles as long as the barcode is still legible. Is there really no way to make a machine that scans the barcode of various other forms of plastic packaging (like yoghu…

[deleted]

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#23

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #16

nradov wrote: post #11

We need to focus more on reuse than on recycling. I'd like to see regulations and tax incentives to encourage beverage companies to use glass bottles that can be washed and reused, rather than disposable aluminum or (even worse) plastic. It's a common sight in Silicon Valley offices to see greasy empty pizza boxes in the recycling bin. People just don't seem to realize that greasy cardboard can't be recycled, and mig…

But as the article suggest, most glass is contaminated and thrown away.

But, the impact of glass wastage is just landfill volume.

I get milk delivered from a farmer in resusable glass bottles. We lose like 1% a year, which represents probably 95% less waste than buying disposable plastic or cardboard containers.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#24

Post by NorthOf33rd » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #17

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #3

From a linked nat geo article: “I never thought plastic recycling would work,” says Roland Geyer, an engineering professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara and author of the study “Production, use and fate of all plastics ever made.” “There is a viable business model around metal, but plastics never has had that. It’s too low-value, too contaminated, with too many different polymers mixed together. And…

> you can only make it work with a really low cost of labor. Yet, isn’t that what automation provides? It has been two decades since supermarkets in the Nordic countries have whizbang bottle-return machines that take back plastic, aluminium, and glass bottles as long as the barcode is still legible. Is there really no way to make a machine that scans the barcode of various other forms of plastic packaging (like yoghu…

Oh man, the Nordic nations. I remember studying abroad and being the industrious-borderline-alchoholic I am, taking the empties from any classmate I could, so I could re-up the beer supply for free.

Here in salt lake, however, we actually have to pay extra to have a glass collection bin at home. There are a dozen or so sites in the city that one could dump the glass, if they were so inclined, or into the general trash bin it goes. We certainly don't get paid for our our glass.

It's extra disappointing because local...legal strangeness, has been encouraging a bit of a local brewery boom. I'd love to return the glass to the brewery for cleaning and reuse, but that's not an option here.

All that said, there's a ton of plastic that goes into single stream recycling that isn't barcoded...

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#25

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #17

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #3

From a linked nat geo article: “I never thought plastic recycling would work,” says Roland Geyer, an engineering professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara and author of the study “Production, use and fate of all plastics ever made.” “There is a viable business model around metal, but plastics never has had that. It’s too low-value, too contaminated, with too many different polymers mixed together. And…

> you can only make it work with a really low cost of labor. Yet, isn’t that what automation provides? It has been two decades since supermarkets in the Nordic countries have whizbang bottle-return machines that take back plastic, aluminium, and glass bottles as long as the barcode is still legible. Is there really no way to make a machine that scans the barcode of various other forms of plastic packaging (like yoghu…

Nobody is going to do that without a deposit, and that is hard to push through.

IMO use tax policy to drive it. Put a $5 tax on plastic clamshells and they’ll be gone in six months.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#26

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #3

From a linked nat geo article: “I never thought plastic recycling would work,” says Roland Geyer, an engineering professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara and author of the study “Production, use and fate of all plastics ever made.” “There is a viable business model around metal, but plastics never has had that. It’s too low-value, too contaminated, with too many different polymers mixed together. And…

The plastic wrap should be recyclable along with plastic bags. Your local supermarket may take them.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#27

Post by yostrovs » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #24

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can only make it work with a really low cost of labor. Yet, isn’t that what automation provides? It has been two decades since supermarkets in the Nordic countries have whizbang bottle-return machines that take back plastic, aluminium, and glass bottles as long as the barcode is still legible. Is there really no way to make a machine that scans the barcode of various other forms of plastic packaging (like yoghu…

Oh man, the Nordic nations. I remember studying abroad and being the industrious-borderline-alchoholic I am, taking the empties from any classmate I could, so I could re-up the beer supply for free. Here in salt lake, however, we actually have to pay extra to have a glass collection bin at home. There are a dozen or so sites in the city that one could dump the glass, if they were so inclined, or into the general tras…

No one gets paid for returning bottles in Nordic countries. They get the deposit back that was paid during purchase.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#28

Post by lozenge » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #17

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #3

From a linked nat geo article: “I never thought plastic recycling would work,” says Roland Geyer, an engineering professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara and author of the study “Production, use and fate of all plastics ever made.” “There is a viable business model around metal, but plastics never has had that. It’s too low-value, too contaminated, with too many different polymers mixed together. And…

> you can only make it work with a really low cost of labor. Yet, isn’t that what automation provides? It has been two decades since supermarkets in the Nordic countries have whizbang bottle-return machines that take back plastic, aluminium, and glass bottles as long as the barcode is still legible. Is there really no way to make a machine that scans the barcode of various other forms of plastic packaging (like yoghu…

It isn't about products it's about opaque lids mixed with clear bottles. Films mixed with stiff boxes. Plastic mixed with food residue and stuck on labels. A tiny contamination can massively lower the value of the batch by making it difficult to work with/have limited usefulness.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#29

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

Recycling and trash separation would be a great a project for a "moonshot". You need big advancements in robotics, computer vision and probably a lot of other areas to make this. I wish some billionaire would throw some money at it. It would be more helpful to humanity than flying to Mars for example.

Re: The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End

#30

Post by nradov » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #16

nradov wrote: post #11

We need to focus more on reuse than on recycling. I'd like to see regulations and tax incentives to encourage beverage companies to use glass bottles that can be washed and reused, rather than disposable aluminum or (even worse) plastic. It's a common sight in Silicon Valley offices to see greasy empty pizza boxes in the recycling bin. People just don't seem to realize that greasy cardboard can't be recycled, and mig…

But as the article suggest, most glass is contaminated and thrown away.

It's tough to recycle glass. That's why I suggested we focus on reusing glass bottles. Use deposits to encourage consumers to return bottles to retailers, then send them back to bottling plants to be washed and refilled. That actually used to be common in the US but doesn't happen much anymore.