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Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

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Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#21

Post by chriselles »

Beyond issues of unexpected ancestry, I’ve also found anecdotal examples of negative feedback resulting from customers unhappy with the results they receive from companies like Teloyears.

Teloyears measures the length of telemeres that may be an indication of genetic aging(as opposed to chronological aging).

Before I had the test done I checked on Teloyears feedback and reviews and most negative reviews consistently included people upset that their Teloyears estimate of genetic aging coming in higher than their chronological age.

I’m guessing people just want to be told what they want to hear.

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#22

Post by paulryanrogers »

azinman2 wrote: post #20

Saying “this is science” alone as an answer to the validity is really doing science a disfavor. Not only are these consumer grade tests, but there’s been a lot of evidence of the fallibility of DNA testing (particularly for crime scene analysis) in recent years, let alone the fact that everything they show is based on models that are constantly updated and effectively best guesses. I really wish they’d be more upfron…

Is the science bad or are some labs just sloppy/malicious?

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#23

Post by opportune »

lallysingh wrote: post #9
technofiend wrote: post #7

If ask Reddit is anything to go by this is slowly becoming normal. You have to wonder if 20-30 years from now mores will have shifted to reflect the reality that there are often familial buried secrets of every kind out there. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/search?q=Dna&restrict_sr=...

There was a study in the UK some decades ago showing that roughly 30% of kids weren't from the father's they thought they were. I got this reference indirectly from The Red Queen, an interesting book. It's packed away, so I can't give anything more specific.

I’m pretty sure the historical rate has been around 4%. Depends on the population, Wikipedia cites 2-12%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event. Wouldn’t be surprised if that study had some kind of confounding variable

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#24

Post by doublec »

azinman2 wrote: post #20

Saying “this is science” alone as an answer to the validity is really doing science a disfavor. Not only are these consumer grade tests, but there’s been a lot of evidence of the fallibility of DNA testing (particularly for crime scene analysis) in recent years, let alone the fact that everything they show is based on models that are constantly updated and effectively best guesses. I really wish they’d be more upfron…

For ethnicity results, yes it's based on models and reference samples that are often updated. You should be taking them with a large grain of salt. For the matching with other people it's useful and accurate and is a great way for doing further genealogical research to back up the paper research.

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#25

Post by jules »

prepend wrote: post #14
TomMckenny wrote: post #13

interesting aside: In education there is the issue of teaching mendelian genetics without causing a massive stink when some of the kids show traits they couldn't get from both parents. This is often solved by intentionally avoiding real examples and using contrived examples that are not mendelian like eye color.

A friend of mine caused a huge stink in her village when she pointed out how two siblings had blue eyes but all parents and grandparents had brown eyes. There was much chaos.

Let's analyse that. Suppose the frequency of the blue eye gene and the brown eye gene are the same in the general population, and suppose the prior probability of cheating is 10%. Then we can simulate this:

    from random import random, randint
    p_blue = 0.5
    p_cheat = 0.1
    
    def randbool(p): return random()
We get 4619 times cheated and 14226 times faithful. The probability of cheating went up substantially relative to the prior of 10%, but it's still below 30%. I'd say that the chaos wasn't justified.

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#26

Post by MRD85 »

mjfl wrote: post #11
technofiend wrote: post #7

If ask Reddit is anything to go by this is slowly becoming normal. You have to wonder if 20-30 years from now mores will have shifted to reflect the reality that there are often familial buried secrets of every kind out there. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/search?q=Dna&restrict_sr=...

I read somewhere that paternal uncertainty is the leading cause of male violence in every culture in the world, from aboriginal Australia to New York. You wonder, if evolution (cultural or biological) has not allowed any variance in this trait - it must be necessary for reproduction. It would mean that men who don't get angry at the prospect of raising another man's children, inescapably raise another man's children.

Are you surprised? I'm not condoning violence but paternal uncertainty is pretty horrible. I split from my ex-wife due to her involvement with a past lover during our marriage and for years I wasn't sure about my youngest. It literally would eat away at me but I didn't want to test. Eventually, I did a DNA test and the test confirmed he is mine.

I could adopt children. I could become a stepdad. I could never raise a child that was born through my partner cheating on me. It's basically a partner saying "I want your resources but I don't want my kids to be like you".

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#27

Post by iguy »

danieltillett wrote: post #12
lallysingh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a study in the UK some decades ago showing that roughly 30% of kids weren't from the father's they thought they were. I got this reference indirectly from The Red Queen, an interesting book. It's packed away, so I can't give anything more specific.

The non-paternatity rate is very class dependant. In the upper-middle the rate is quite low, but in the underclasses it can get up to around 20%.

No way, 1-2% is more like the range. For the western world, for serious studies e.g. tracking surnames vs Y chromosomes. Most much higher figures come from counting only disputed cases, which are obviously going to be skewed.

Edit, some links:

Surname "Sykes": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288207/

Bone marrow: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22688803

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#28

Post by paulcole »

technofiend wrote: post #7

If ask Reddit is anything to go by this is slowly becoming normal. You have to wonder if 20-30 years from now mores will have shifted to reflect the reality that there are often familial buried secrets of every kind out there. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/search?q=Dna&restrict_sr=...

Many of those posts are shills doing viral marketing for 23andMe. Check out /r/HailCorporate for more details.

Re: Surprise DNA Results Are Turning Customer-Service Reps into Therapists

#30

Post by ethelward »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #22
azinman2 wrote: post #20

Saying “this is science” alone as an answer to the validity is really doing science a disfavor. Not only are these consumer grade tests, but there’s been a lot of evidence of the fallibility of DNA testing (particularly for crime scene analysis) in recent years, let alone the fact that everything they show is based on models that are constantly updated and effectively best guesses. I really wish they’d be more upfron…

Is the science bad or are some labs just sloppy/malicious?

On on hand, the science itself is a quickly moving field; on the other one, the more precise tests kits are far more expensive.

So these societies have to make compromises.

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