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Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

swissinfo.ch

21–30 of 70 posts

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#21
post #2

If the drawing has the correct scale, it looks like you will have to lie down going through the tube. Futurama-esk.

Since both accelerating to 900kmh on such a short track and decelerating will involve multi-g forces, maybe this will be the most comfortable travel position.

I think it's the opposite really, you black out at much lower g forces when accelerating head first compared to face front.

Not proof of anything but notice rocket crew always face front.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A culture of public investment and use of transit is important. America's car-centric culture, for example, has been a major impediment to public transit projects here. The Swiss network fairly seamlessly integrates multiple forms of transit into one network - both public and private rail, buses, boats, light rail, trams, etc. Bus stops are timed so the trains they connect to are there at the right time for a seamles…

Indeed, but the network benefits dramatically from - naturally - network effects. Today you rarely ever see infrastructure projects in Switzerland which are incompatible with the existing network. If you build a hyperloop tunnel, only hyperloop cars will be able to use it, and only in the tunnel. If you build a rail tunnel, it is automatically integrated into the huge existing rail infrastructure. Unless, of course,…

You've already got folks hopping from IC trains to regional ones in the major cities. I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) couldn't possibly interlink with the regional/local transit options at major stations.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A culture of public investment and use of transit is important. America's car-centric culture, for example, has been a major impediment to public transit projects here. The Swiss network fairly seamlessly integrates multiple forms of transit into one network - both public and private rail, buses, boats, light rail, trams, etc. Bus stops are timed so the trains they connect to are there at the right time for a seamles…

Indeed, but the network benefits dramatically from - naturally - network effects. Today you rarely ever see infrastructure projects in Switzerland which are incompatible with the existing network. If you build a hyperloop tunnel, only hyperloop cars will be able to use it, and only in the tunnel. If you build a rail tunnel, it is automatically integrated into the huge existing rail infrastructure. Unless, of course,…

It's worth noting that both France and Japan have a number of high-speed trains that run onto regular track -- although in Japan's case the different rail gauge made this difficult enough that neither approach (dual rails or flex trains) has been widely adopted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since both accelerating to 900kmh on such a short track and decelerating will involve multi-g forces, maybe this will be the most comfortable travel position.

I think it's the opposite really, you black out at much lower g forces when accelerating head first compared to face front. Not proof of anything but notice rocket crew always face front.

Interesting! But presumably in this setup, one would experience both significant acceleration AND deceleration. Is there any static orientation that would minimize problems for both?

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss citizens travel more kilometers by rail per capita than any other country in the world. If you're going to implement a new form of public transit, they're a pretty good place to look.

> If you're going to implement a new form of public transit, they're a pretty good place to look. Not really. Most of Switzerland's transit is through rail, particularly standard gouge. Introducing a completely new, incompatible form of transit in a highly integrated network is a bad idea. You have to build entirely new infrastructure, stations, etc. All of them incompatible with the existing infrastructure. It is th…

All you describe can be said about the Shinkansen when it was introduced in the 60s - and look at it now.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#26
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't happen to know why nobody wants the air-bearing system? It seems like all Musk's announcement did was give cachet to tube train maglev.

Air bearings are expensive and have a very low clearance (talking about tens of microns). The lower clearance raises the issue of safety. If I remember correctly, to get that to be greater than tens of microns you need larger compressors and lower operating pressure inside the tube which increases costs and it tougher to maintain. If you take a look at the SpaceX Hyperloop competition the teams moved away from using…

I don't know why I didn't think about the clearance; that's a very good point. Does the low clearance affect maximum roughness and slope of the track as well?

[edit]

Did any of the hyperloop competitors try the addition of a skirt, similar to the UK's old hovertrain?

[edit2]

Googling for "hyperloop skirt" found this article: https://waset.org/publications/10004923/conceptional-design-... which suggests a 2cm clearance, but no clue if that's a reliable source.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but the network benefits dramatically from - naturally - network effects. Today you rarely ever see infrastructure projects in Switzerland which are incompatible with the existing network. If you build a hyperloop tunnel, only hyperloop cars will be able to use it, and only in the tunnel. If you build a rail tunnel, it is automatically integrated into the huge existing rail infrastructure. Unless, of course,…

You've already got folks hopping from IC trains to regional ones in the major cities. I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) couldn't possibly interlink with the regional/local transit options at major stations.

> I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines)

Why would you replace perfectly good existing infrastructure that is used not just for high-speed rail in Switzerland with an entirely new, untested, incompatible system that will provide little incremental benefit while severely crippling the existing rail network?

High-speed rail lines in Switzerland aren't isolated, different-gauge networks like Japan, they are largely part of the same rail network, just with higher speed limits.

Take the new Gotthard Base Tunnel, while it has an operational speed of 200km/h for passenger rail, it is also extensively used for cargo trains (at lower speeds). Building it didn't just reduce the time for trips between Zurich and Milan, the main Nort-South route, but for anyone travelling from the north side of it to the south side of it, as current trains can run through it just as any other railroad.

Particularly, it has a massive impact on cargo, as it was designed from the beginning to reduce congestion in trans-alpine cargo routes. It provides massive network effects not just to Switzerland, but to all of Europe.

Replacing something like this with Hyperloop isn't just a bad idea, is a complete disaster.

Switzerland is probably the last country in the world to need something like a Hyperloop. No wonder we thought about it 50 years ago and shut down the idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're going to implement a new form of public transit, they're a pretty good place to look. Not really. Most of Switzerland's transit is through rail, particularly standard gouge. Introducing a completely new, incompatible form of transit in a highly integrated network is a bad idea. You have to build entirely new infrastructure, stations, etc. All of them incompatible with the existing infrastructure. It is th…

All you describe can be said about the Shinkansen when it was introduced in the 60s - and look at it now.

Nope. There was no high-speed rail in Japan then.

Japan wasn't in the 60's what Switzerland is today.

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